The perils of naming a Teddy Bear "Mohammed"

davieddy · 2007-12-12, 10:01

Devout Christians might raise an eybrow if a Teddy bear
was named Jesus. But then they don't often use this name for
sons. I know I nice bloke named "Mohammed" but nobody
called "Jesus". I don't see why the death sentence should
be suggested in this case.

David

Richard Cameron · 2007-12-12, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by davieddy

Devout Christians might raise an eybrow if a Teddy bear was named Jesus.

I wondered about that. We really need a view from a country where the name Jesus is common.

Applying a name that has great religious significance to an animal -even a cute fluffy animal like a teddy- clearly has potential for causing offense.

Richard

Mini-Geek · 2007-12-12, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by davieddy

Devout Christians might raise an eybrow if a Teddy bear
was named Jesus. But then they don't often use this name for
sons. I know I nice bloke named "Mohammed" but nobody
called "Jesus". I don't see why the death sentence should
be suggested in this case.

David

Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the LORD saves.
http://www.tniv.info/bible/passagese...option=columns
So we do still name people Jesus' name, just as Joshua instead of as Jesus.

R.D. Silverman · 2007-12-12, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Cameron

I wondered about that. We really need a view from a country where the name Jesus is common.

Applying a name that has great religious significance to an animal -even a cute fluffy animal like a teddy- clearly has potential for causing offense.

Richard

Offense. So what??? You're an adult. Ignore it.

And it wasn't HER choice. It was her students' choice!!!

Part of growing up and becoming an adult is learning that the world
isn't always the way that we would like it. There are things that we
like, and things that we don't. A *MATURE ADULT* is capable of
ignoring something offensive.

But, of course, the Muslim world hasn't grown up yet. They still
call for the killing of someone who says something they find offensive.

Is their belief in their own religion so weak that they can't stand any
satire, ridicule, or contrary comment? Their response is a sign of
juvenile insecurity in their own beliefs.

Just as a matter of American bias, I point out that nowhere in our
Constitution is the right "not to be offended".

Everyone is offended by something. If nothing were allowed to be
offensive, we would all stay in our homes and never communicate with each
other. The world would be a very dull place.

retina · 2007-12-12, 13:47

@R.D. Silverman: Well put there. Except for one minor point which I feel is important. It is not the fault of the religion as such, it is the people that claim certain things and then proclaim it is because of religion. I doubt any of those calling for blood can point to any passage in the Quran that dictates calling for bloodshed over such a minor thing.

I live in a Muslim country (not Sudan thankfully), where such a thing happening here would simply invoke a reaction of 'Oh, it might not be such a good idea to name it that. So how about you just choose a different name.' All very polite and no one has to get upset.

It is the people that are too immature accept that sometimes other will offend them. A lot is to do with upbringing and how their peers/guardians/parents/society has trained them the respond to certain events. The mob mentality applies in some respects.

For sure, I grant you that Muslim followers get a lot of press about extreme behaviours like this but I think it is mostly just because that is how they were trained to react. Like I mentioned in my country such behaviour would is considered ridiculous even though most people here follow the Muslim faith. The religion is (supposedly) the same but the reaction is entirely different.

The good advice ministry says: Don't get born in the wrong country.

garo · 2007-12-12, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

But, of course, the Muslim world hasn't grown up yet. They still
call for the killing of someone who says something they find offensive.

I think that's a bit of a generalization here. I recently read an interview with a leading Sudanese religious figure who agreed that it was a silly case and it is just a name and there is nothing wrong with it. There are people who are grown up and there are people who haven't in every single country. It's just that in the Muslim world those who haven't grown up seem to get all the attention. Or at least all the Western media attention.

At the end of the day the teacher got to fly home after a couple of days in jail. That was not much more or less than say the case of Maya Anne Evans who was convicted and given a conditional discharge for reading out names of British soldiers killed in Iraq at central London's Cenotaph.

Is the UK government's belief in it's foreign policy so weak that it cannot withstand a simple act of remembrance?

Brian-E · 2007-12-12, 14:23

Unfortunately religion is an excellent way for despotic individuals to bring large numbers of people under control and "justify" barbaric acts. The Sudanese regime is one of the worst offenders, in a similar league as for example Iran and Saudi Arabia. The teacher's case was one of a much larger number which we never hear about: hers was world news simply because she is a Westerner from a democratic country whose representatives specially appealed to the Sudanese head of state for her pardon. The actions of repressive and barbarous countries have nothing to do with the religions they claim to represent. The overwhelming majority of the followers of those religions are peaceful and humane people.

R.D. Silverman · 2007-12-12, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by garo

I think that's a bit of a generalization here. I recently read an interview with a leading Sudanese religious figure who agreed that it was a silly case and it is just a name and there is nothing wrong with it. There are people who are grown up and there are people who haven't in every single country. It's just that in the Muslim world those who haven't grown up seem to get all the attention. Or at least all the Western media attention.

At the end of the day the teacher got to fly home after a couple of days in jail. That was not much more or less than say the case of Maya Anne Evans who was convicted and given a conditional discharge for reading out names of British soldiers killed in Iraq at central London's Cenotaph.

Is the UK government's belief in it's foreign policy so weak that it cannot withstand a simple act of remembrance?

Ah! I had not heard that story. I agree that such behavior on the part
of a government is despicable.

retina · 2007-12-12, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by garo

At the end of the day the teacher got to fly home after a couple of days in jail.

That and she was also threatened with 40 lashes, which will have a certain amount of psychological effect that can't be easily shaken off when you're waiting around wondering what will happen to you.

ewmayer · 2007-12-12, 16:18

To the Sudanese government: So, genocide against the non-muslims among your country's people is fine and even encouraged, but naming a teddy bear 'Mohammed' is offensive in the extreme? Okay - I'm just trying to get a sense of your priorities there.

&amp · 2007-12-12, 19:31

Likely, Sudanese government isn't registered in mersenne forum. And even if I'm wrong, that's not the point: I am a registered user, and your animated icon gif , I'm talking to you ewmayer, disturbs me, in the extreme if truth is to be told. So what ? I hit escape and the animation shuts down. and that's fine.

I usually like and agree with what you post, as well as R.D. Silverman own's posts. But from times to times, you're too much american of a people (not sure it's the right way of writing it, but you get the picture), and come on, we're on the same boat, like it or not.

You've known better, I'm 100% sure of it. Things won't improve if someone decides or just thinks one behavior is superior to another.

Please don't be fooled: we're in deep shit right now. And unfortunately, for everyone of us, some people don't have the escape key handy, well they even don't care about that!

JF.

2007-12-12, 10:01	#1
davieddy "Lucan" Dec 2006 England 1100101001010₂ Posts	The perils of naming a Teddy Bear "Mohammed" Devout Christians might raise an eybrow if a Teddy bear was named Jesus. But then they don't often use this name for sons. I know I nice bloke named "Mohammed" but nobody called "Jesus". I don't see why the death sentence should be suggested in this case. David Last fiddled with by davieddy on 2007-12-12 at 10:04

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2007-12-12, 13:47	#5
retina Undefined "The unspeakable one" Jun 2006 My evil lair 14064₈ Posts	@R.D. Silverman: Well put there. Except for one minor point which I feel is important. It is not the fault of the religion as such, it is the people that claim certain things and then proclaim it is because of religion. I doubt any of those calling for blood can point to any passage in the Quran that dictates calling for bloodshed over such a minor thing. I live in a Muslim country (not Sudan thankfully), where such a thing happening here would simply invoke a reaction of 'Oh, it might not be such a good idea to name it that. So how about you just choose a different name.' All very polite and no one has to get upset. It is the people that are too immature accept that sometimes other will offend them. A lot is to do with upbringing and how their peers/guardians/parents/society has trained them the respond to certain events. The mob mentality applies in some respects. For sure, I grant you that Muslim followers get a lot of press about extreme behaviours like this but I think it is mostly just because that is how they were trained to react. Like I mentioned in my country such behaviour would is considered ridiculous even though most people here follow the Muslim faith. The religion is (supposedly) the same but the reaction is entirely different. The good advice ministry says: Don't get born in the wrong country.

2007-12-12, 14:23	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CC5₁₆ Posts	Unfortunately religion is an excellent way for despotic individuals to bring large numbers of people under control and "justify" barbaric acts. The Sudanese regime is one of the worst offenders, in a similar league as for example Iran and Saudi Arabia. The teacher's case was one of a much larger number which we never hear about: hers was world news simply because she is a Westerner from a democratic country whose representatives specially appealed to the Sudanese head of state for her pardon. The actions of repressive and barbarous countries have nothing to do with the religions they claim to represent. The overwhelming majority of the followers of those religions are peaceful and humane people.

2007-12-12, 16:18	#10
ewmayer ∂²ω=0 Sep 2002 República de California 103×113 Posts	To the Sudanese government: So, genocide against the non-muslims among your country's people is fine and even encouraged, but naming a teddy bear 'Mohammed' is offensive in the extreme? Okay - I'm just trying to get a sense of your priorities there.

2007-12-12, 19:31	#11
&amp Jul 2005 France, Lyon 2² Posts	Likely, Sudanese government isn't registered in mersenne forum. And even if I'm wrong, that's not the point: I am a registered user, and your animated icon gif , I'm talking to you ewmayer, disturbs me, in the extreme if truth is to be told. So what ? I hit escape and the animation shuts down. and that's fine. I usually like and agree with what you post, as well as R.D. Silverman own's posts. But from times to times, you're too much american of a people (not sure it's the right way of writing it, but you get the picture), and come on, we're on the same boat, like it or not. You've known better, I'm 100% sure of it. Things won't improve if someone decides or just thinks one behavior is superior to another. Please don't be fooled: we're in deep shit right now. And unfortunately, for everyone of us, some people don't have the escape key handy, well they even don't care about that! JF.