Let's buy GIMPS an Opteron! - Page 2

Xyzzy · 2003-08-14, 07:23

$705.13...

kwstone · 2003-08-14, 10:22

We're all dying to know who gave the 13 cents.

graeme · 2003-08-14, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwstone

We're all dying to know who gave the 13 cents.

Maybe they all did!

Lumly · 2003-08-14, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by graeme

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwstone

We're all dying to know who gave the 13 cents.

Maybe they all did!

More like Paypal takes a percentage cut of every penny plus there'sa currency conversions, etc.

Xyzzy · 2003-08-14, 16:56

There have been some fractional donations...

I can't post for each individual donation so some postings are several donations combined together...

I will begin to order parts sometime next week... I will list each transaction here so you all know where the money is going...

Here are the "street" prices for the CPUs... I'm trying to locate a 140 since that should save us a few bux, but I haven't been able to find one...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html?redir=CPPR01

My understanding from reading the manuals and datasheets is that either a 140 or 240 will work for us...

If anyone has a suggestion on parts please PM me the details... I plan to purchase stuff I'm familiar with but new ideas are always good...

Fusion_power · 2003-08-14, 20:01

It won't be long now said the skink as the little boy picked him up by the tail. (A skink is a small lizard with an easily broken but quickly re-grown tail)

Quintleo, no problem, I tossed in 20 for me and 10 for you.

I hope to hear that the machine is under construction soon.

Do you need a monitor? Someone might be able to donate it...

Fusion

Xyzzy · 2003-08-14, 20:13

$735.13...

I plan to run it headless, but if we need a monitor I have a couple around here we can use...

We'll probably get the motherboard from here...

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=110227

I found that Kingston has 128Mb memory sticks for $44 each (2 needed) so that might be an option to save some money... The memory from Crucial (2x256Mb) will cost ~$145... That said, I'm still leaning towards 512Mb...

RMAC9.5 · 2003-08-14, 21:15

Does the memory have to be ECC registered or can it be just ECC? The reason for asking is Mushkin has 512MB (2x256) of PC2700 ECC memory for sale on their web site for $119. PC 2700 ECC registered is $159. Your can also contact them at 1-800-569-1868 to see if they have validated their memory for the Tyan board your are looking at.

nomadicus · 2003-08-14, 21:24

I buy Crucial exclusively now. Had mediocre and some back luck with other brands (don't know anything about Muskin).

non-registered and non-ECC as well as ECC have all worked nicely. Just use Crucial's motherboard/memory matcher-upper thingie.

Just my preference and $0.02's worth.

Xyzzy · 2003-08-15, 01:19

It has to be registered... Refer to page 18 of the manual linked earlier...

I picked up a case and power supply today... It is cheaper to buy them locally...

http://www.mersenneforum.org/jpg/opteron01.jpg

Here are some links about it...

http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=81046

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-129-120-02.JPG/11-129-120-03.JPG/11-129-120-04.JPG/11-129-120-05.JPG/11-129-120-06.JPG/11-129-120-07.JPG/11-129-120-08.JPG/11-129-120-09.JPG/11-129-120-10.JPG/11-129-120-01.JPG

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=11-129-120&depa=1

If we had bought it from Newegg it would have cost $110... Locally it was $99.99 with a $20 mail in rebate for a total of $86.99 after tax...

$735.13 - $86.99 = $648.14 left...

Lumly · 2003-08-15, 01:37

Wouldn't matter if it didn't have to be registered ram, Xy would insist on it :(

Xyzzy · 2003-08-15, 02:21

Actually, I try to push ECC memory, but it costs more, most motherboards don't support it and it is a bit slower, so most people don't like it...

From Crucial's website...

Quote:

Registered modules contain a register that delays all information transferred to the module by one clock cycle. Again, this is usually done on modules with a lot of memory to help ensure that the data is properly handled.

ECC modules have an extra chip that detects if the data was correctly read or written by the memory module. If the data wasn't properly written, the extra chip will correct it in many cases (depending on what type of error). Non-ECC (also called non-parity) modules do not have this error-detecting feature.

xtreme2k · 2003-08-15, 02:32

From what I know Opterons must use ECC Registered. Nothing else.

QuintLeo · 2003-08-15, 02:41

I'm running Kingston Registered DDR in one of my Dualy Athlons. 256 Megs should be plenty to work on, for a while.

Xyzzy · 2003-08-15, 06:07

$775.13 in donations... $86.99 spent...

RMAC9.5 · 2003-08-15, 15:55

I agree with Xyzzy about leaning toward 512MB as a way of future proofing this PC. While 256MB is plenty for 32bit MS operating systems, it may be on the light side for MS's new 64bit operating system. Just look at MS's minimum memory recommendations for Win 95, Win 98, Win 2000, Win XP, etc.
For similar reasons I think we should lean toward PC2700 memory instead of PC2100 memory. Crucial provides top quality memory with a lifetime guarantee. So does Mushkin. I have purchased from both companies and have had zero problems.
Here are some current prices from both web sites:
Mushkin PC2100 Registered ECC 2.5-3-3 256MB - $89 each
Mushkin PC2700 Registered ECC 2.5-3-3 256MB - $99 each
Crucial PC2100 Registered ECC CL 2.5 256MB - $73.99 each
Crucial PC2700 Registered ECC (Apparently not available yet)

Xyzzy · 2003-08-15, 16:08

$790.13 in donations... $86.99 spent...

The only question I have about the memory is whether or not running it asynchronously is good or bad... Some of the XP boxes I have built have had better performance running the memory synchronously... In the case of the Opteron, that would be PC1600 (!)...

Any links would be appreciated... I'm having a bit of trouble finding relevant articles or forum postings about the Opteron...

Here is Corsair Micro's DDR listing...

http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/prddr.html

The fact that Crucial, Kingston and Corsair Micro only offer PC2100 indicates to me that possibly there are some pitfalls with pushing this type of memory to PC2700... Personally, I always use Crucial, but I'll look into Mushkin to see what they are doing differently...

RMAC9.5 · 2003-08-15, 22:51

Xyzzy, according to the picture on page 8 of the Tyan manual you posted the link for, Opterons can use either 266 MHz or 333 MHz memory. Unless I am mistaken, PC2100 is 266 MHz memory and PC2700 is 333 MHz memory. Consequently, either speed should run with out problems.

Mushkin started out as a small/medium memory DIMM manufacturer which advertised high quality, overclockable memory DIMMs built with hand selected, high performance memory chips. I first read about them in memory comparison articles on some of the overclocking web sites that I browse from time to time. They are now a subsidary of Ramtron, a speciality memory manufacturer of FRAM (ferroelectric random access memory). FRAM is a unique type of memory that doesn't lose its memory when the power is turned off. Check out www.ramtron.com for some interesting facts on FRAM.

Xyzzy · 2003-08-15, 23:03

If PC2700 memory ran synchronously that would mean the FSB would be 166MHz, right?

Check out this link...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20030510180321.html

Quote:

Note that PC1600 memory always works on its own frequency since 100MHz is actually the reference clock of the HyperTransport link, thus it doesn't need dividing. The same can be said about PC3200 (200MHz), which is supported by the upcoming AMD Athlon 64 processors.

I thought the Opteron's FSB was 100MHz... I'll have to do more reading here...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/23932.pdf

I've bought from Mushkin before... I know their products are good, but nothing can compare to the service and support I get from Crucial... That said, I will check into Mushkin some more...

Wacky · 2003-08-16, 00:38

In the long run, you need to consider two things
(1) Does the platform allow the developers to test their code which is tailored to that class of systems?
(2) If you really want a fast system implementation, are you getting the maximum effective memory speed?

We can design around cache sizes, etc. But the fundamental design consideration is effective use of the registers and effective memory bandwidth.

clowns789 · 2003-08-16, 23:12

Looks like Opterons are pretty slow, and besides, you don't want a lot of them just piled up in the garage. Obviously you can't get a Cray, but I found an alternative.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/model_pedge_pedge_6650.htm

ColdFury · 2003-08-17, 00:14

The whole reason for buying the Opteron is to optimize for it. What use is buying a Xeon server going to do? George already has a P4 platform to test optimizations on.

clowns789 · 2003-08-17, 03:31

Well if you get bored overclocking and get a lot of money it would speed it up a lot more than Opterons. It's not a server it's a thingy that has high sustained floating point operations which GIMPS needs. But for now you should read this article.

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1299

Xyzzy · 2003-08-17, 05:42

I recently upgraded my Mom's hard drive from 15GB to 40GB... Her "old" hard drive has passed a 24 hour "torture test" so if we use that we can save a bit of money to be applied to more memory or something... Once the system is loaded up the speed of the hard drive shouldn't be super important, even during a compile... (Actually, this drive is reasonably fast... Mom just needed more room for her MP3s!)

I don't plan to reboot the system except when the power goes out, which is just a few times a year...

It is a 7200RPM Western Digital... The model number is WD153BA...

If anyone thinks this is a bad idea let me know... Remember, I'm trying to maximise our bang for the buck here! (And it's free!)

ThomRuley · 2003-08-17, 23:07

Why not use it? If the goal is to build an Opteron system for as little as possible, then a free hard drive is the way to go (assuming it works).

2003-08-14, 20:01	#31
Fusion_power Aug 2003 Snicker, AL 1110111111₂ Posts	There soon! It won't be long now said the skink as the little boy picked him up by the tail. (A skink is a small lizard with an easily broken but quickly re-grown tail) Quintleo, no problem, I tossed in 20 for me and 10 for you. I hope to hear that the machine is under construction soon. Do you need a monitor? Someone might be able to donate it... Fusion

2003-08-14, 21:15	#33
RMAC9.5 Jun 2003 3²×17 Posts	Mushkin Memory? Does the memory have to be ECC registered or can it be just ECC? The reason for asking is Mushkin has 512MB (2x256) of PC2700 ECC memory for sale on their web site for $119. PC 2700 ECC registered is $159. Your can also contact them at 1-800-569-1868 to see if they have validated their memory for the Tyan board your are looking at.

2003-08-15, 15:55	#41
RMAC9.5 Jun 2003 3²×17 Posts	Memory Amount I agree with Xyzzy about leaning toward 512MB as a way of future proofing this PC. While 256MB is plenty for 32bit MS operating systems, it may be on the light side for MS's new 64bit operating system. Just look at MS's minimum memory recommendations for Win 95, Win 98, Win 2000, Win XP, etc. For similar reasons I think we should lean toward PC2700 memory instead of PC2100 memory. Crucial provides top quality memory with a lifetime guarantee. So does Mushkin. I have purchased from both companies and have had zero problems. Here are some current prices from both web sites: Mushkin PC2100 Registered ECC 2.5-3-3 256MB - $89 each Mushkin PC2700 Registered ECC 2.5-3-3 256MB - $99 each Crucial PC2100 Registered ECC CL 2.5 256MB - $73.99 each Crucial PC2700 Registered ECC (Apparently not available yet)

2003-08-15, 22:51	#43
RMAC9.5 Jun 2003 3²×17 Posts	Memory Speeds Xyzzy, according to the picture on page 8 of the Tyan manual you posted the link for, Opterons can use either 266 MHz or 333 MHz memory. Unless I am mistaken, PC2100 is 266 MHz memory and PC2700 is 333 MHz memory. Consequently, either speed should run with out problems. Mushkin started out as a small/medium memory DIMM manufacturer which advertised high quality, overclockable memory DIMMs built with hand selected, high performance memory chips. I first read about them in memory comparison articles on some of the overclocking web sites that I browse from time to time. They are now a subsidary of Ramtron, a speciality memory manufacturer of FRAM (ferroelectric random access memory). FRAM is a unique type of memory that doesn't lose its memory when the power is turned off. Check out www.ramtron.com for some interesting facts on FRAM.

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2003-08-14, 07:23	#26
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 5·17·97 Posts	$705.13...

2003-08-14, 10:22	#27
kwstone Jun 2003 Shanghai, China 109 Posts	We're all dying to know who gave the 13 cents.

2003-08-14, 16:56	#30
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 2035₁₆ Posts	There have been some fractional donations... I can't post for each individual donation so some postings are several donations combined together... I will begin to order parts sometime next week... I will list each transaction here so you all know where the money is going... Here are the "street" prices for the CPUs... I'm trying to locate a 140 since that should save us a few bux, but I haven't been able to find one... http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html?redir=CPPR01 My understanding from reading the manuals and datasheets is that either a 140 or 240 will work for us... If anyone has a suggestion on parts please PM me the details... I plan to purchase stuff I'm familiar with but new ideas are always good...

2003-08-14, 20:13	#32
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 5×17×97 Posts	$735.13... I plan to run it headless, but if we need a monitor I have a couple around here we can use... We'll probably get the motherboard from here... http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=110227 I found that Kingston has 128Mb memory sticks for $44 each (2 needed) so that might be an option to save some money... The memory from Crucial (2x256Mb) will cost ~$145... That said, I'm still leaning towards 512Mb...

2003-08-14, 21:24	#34
nomadicus Jan 2003 North Carolina 11110110₂ Posts	I buy Crucial exclusively now. Had mediocre and some back luck with other brands (don't know anything about Muskin). non-registered and non-ECC as well as ECC have all worked nicely. Just use Crucial's motherboard/memory matcher-upper thingie. Just my preference and $0.02's worth.

2003-08-15, 01:19	#35
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 10000000110101₂ Posts	It has to be registered... Refer to page 18 of the manual linked earlier... I picked up a case and power supply today... It is cheaper to buy them locally... http://www.mersenneforum.org/jpg/opteron01.jpg Here are some links about it... http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=81046 http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-129-120-02.JPG/11-129-120-03.JPG/11-129-120-04.JPG/11-129-120-05.JPG/11-129-120-06.JPG/11-129-120-07.JPG/11-129-120-08.JPG/11-129-120-09.JPG/11-129-120-10.JPG/11-129-120-01.JPG http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=11-129-120&depa=1 If we had bought it from Newegg it would have cost $110... Locally it was $99.99 with a $20 mail in rebate for a total of $86.99 after tax... $735.13 - $86.99 = $648.14 left...

2003-08-15, 01:37	#36
Lumly Aug 2002 Quebec, Canada 29 Posts	Wouldn't matter if it didn't have to be registered ram, Xy would insist on it :(

2003-08-15, 02:32	#38
xtreme2k Aug 2002 2·3·29 Posts	From what I know Opterons must use ECC Registered. Nothing else.

2003-08-15, 02:41	#39
QuintLeo Oct 2002 Lost in the hills of Iowa 2⁶×7 Posts	I'm running Kingston Registered DDR in one of my Dualy Athlons. 256 Megs should be plenty to work on, for a while.

2003-08-15, 06:07	#40
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 20065₈ Posts	$775.13 in donations... $86.99 spent...

2003-08-15, 16:08	#42
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 10000000110101₂ Posts	$790.13 in donations... $86.99 spent... The only question I have about the memory is whether or not running it asynchronously is good or bad... Some of the XP boxes I have built have had better performance running the memory synchronously... In the case of the Opteron, that would be PC1600 (!)... Any links would be appreciated... I'm having a bit of trouble finding relevant articles or forum postings about the Opteron... Here is Corsair Micro's DDR listing... http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/prddr.html The fact that Crucial, Kingston and Corsair Micro only offer PC2100 indicates to me that possibly there are some pitfalls with pushing this type of memory to PC2700... Personally, I always use Crucial, but I'll look into Mushkin to see what they are doing differently...

2003-08-16, 00:38	#45
Wacky Jun 2003 The Texas Hill Country 441₁₆ Posts	In the long run, you need to consider two things (1) Does the platform allow the developers to test their code which is tailored to that class of systems? (2) If you really want a fast system implementation, are you getting the maximum effective memory speed? We can design around cache sizes, etc. But the fundamental design consideration is effective use of the registers and effective memory bandwidth.

2003-08-16, 23:12	#46
clowns789 Jun 2003 The Computer 2³·7² Posts	Looks like Opterons are pretty slow, and besides, you don't want a lot of them just piled up in the garage. Obviously you can't get a Cray, but I found an alternative. http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/model_pedge_pedge_6650.htm

2003-08-17, 00:14	#47
ColdFury Aug 2002 101000000₂ Posts	The whole reason for buying the Opteron is to optimize for it. What use is buying a Xeon server going to do? George already has a P4 platform to test optimizations on.

2003-08-17, 03:31	#48
clowns789 Jun 2003 The Computer 110001000₂ Posts	Well if you get bored overclocking and get a lot of money it would speed it up a lot more than Opterons. It's not a server it's a thingy that has high sustained floating point operations which GIMPS needs. But for now you should read this article. http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1299

2003-08-17, 05:42	#49
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 20065₈ Posts	I recently upgraded my Mom's hard drive from 15GB to 40GB... Her "old" hard drive has passed a 24 hour "torture test" so if we use that we can save a bit of money to be applied to more memory or something... Once the system is loaded up the speed of the hard drive shouldn't be super important, even during a compile... (Actually, this drive is reasonably fast... Mom just needed more room for her MP3s!) I don't plan to reboot the system except when the power goes out, which is just a few times a year... It is a 7200RPM Western Digital... The model number is WD153BA... If anyone thinks this is a bad idea let me know... Remember, I'm trying to maximise our bang for the buck here! (And it's free!)

2003-08-17, 23:07	#50
ThomRuley May 2003 2³×31 Posts	Why not use it? If the goal is to build an Opteron system for as little as possible, then a free hard drive is the way to go (assuming it works).