Climate Change

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Dubslow

I'm substantially south of you and I've been between 1 and 8 C (give or take) for the last several weeks, including snow the weekend before (American) Thanksgiving.

I'm substantially north of southern Saskatchewan, and further north than any of 49 US states. So far this year, the first ground frost (though air temperatures remained above 2C) was in late November, we've had no snow per se but a single shower of sleet did fall a week or so ago. This autumn has been very mild and we've had the cloudiest November on record. To set it in historical perspective, we'd expect the first frost in mid to late September.

It's been so mild that I didn't bring the tender potted plants like the pineapple, chillies and Strelitzias indoors until November. The olive tree, papyrus and a couple of agaves are still outside because they can withstand the occasional frost.

[Dubslow]

Originally Posted by xilman

I'm substantially north of southern Saskatchewan and further north than any of 49 US states. So far this year, the first ground frost (though air temperatures remained above 2C) was in late November, we've had no snow per se but a single shower of sleet did fall a week or so ago. This autumn has been very mild and we've had the cloudiest November on record. To set it in historical perspective, we'd expect the first frost in mid to late September.

It's been so mild that I didn't bring the tender potted plants like the pineapple, chillies and Strelitzias indoors until November. The olive tree, papyrus and a couple of agaves are still outside because they can withstand the occasional frost.

Saskatchewan touches the contiguous 48, so "southern" Saskatchewan is "only" several hundred miles north of me. And at any rate, I (mostly) share with Saskatchewan the mid-continental climate of extremes, whereas the UK (or at least the southern parts of it) is more regulated and moderated by the Atlantic currents.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Dubslow

Saskatchewan touches the contiguous 48, so "southern" Saskatchewan is "only" several hundred miles north of me. And at any rate, I (mostly) share with Saskatchewan the mid-continental climate of extremes, whereas the UK (or at least the southern parts of it) is more regulated and moderated by the Atlantic currents.

Indeed. Apologies for editing your post but I screwed up my own and thought I should propagate the corrections to your quote because it didn't, IMO, change your message.

My real comment was that it is very unusual not to have a frost in these parts before late November. Having something like 20 hours of sunshine in the entire month is also bizarre, IMO.

Predictions for the next three months are for extremely mild weather in December and early January with a likelihood of harsh conditions for the second half of January and February. Harsh by British standards, that is. Shirt-sleeves weather by Montana or Czech standards.

Blame El Niño perhaps?

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Dubslow

... whereas the UK (or at least the southern parts of it) is more regulated and moderated by the Atlantic currents.

Actually, it's the western parts of the British Isles. Western Scotland, which is well to the north of chunks of Alaska, has a much milder climate and wetter(*) than here in eastern England. Cambridge has markedly more continental weather than Ayr though, of course, nowhere near as marked as your part of North America or Siberia.

(*) Despite the common perception. Parts of East Anglia are classified as semi-arid, in that they receive less than 50 cm of rain per annum. Cambridge gets less rain than Jerusalem or Marrakesh in most years. It has a lot of rainy weather but it tends to be drizzle rather than downpours. My characterization of British weather is "miserable but harmless", or, if you prefer a more up-beat assessment, "harmless but miserable" .

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by davar55

I would argue that it was not capitalism (free markets, etc.) that got us to the point where
our energy sources are in question, but quite the opposite - it's capitalism and the profit
motive that is best suited to help generate the ideas needed to solve our possible problem.

I don't entirely disagree with that. But, by definition, fossil fuels are finite, and we don't really understand what is happening in our chaotic system we call home. Thus, I would argue we need to figure out how to supply power to ourselves which doesn't involve burning carbon anyway.

Solar, wind, geothermal, fusion or fission, perpetual motion machine, whatever....

If we find we need to enter more energy into our home, that can easily be done. Carbon into the atmosphere, space mirrors, etc.

If we find out that we've entered too much carbon into the atmosphere? That's a much harder problem to solve.

Remember, you can create heat. You can't create cold.

[Dubslow]

Originally Posted by xilman

Actually, it's the western parts of the British Isles. Western Scotland, which is well to the north of chunks of Alaska, has a much milder climate and wetter(*) than here in eastern England. Cambridge has markedly more continental weather than Ayr though, of course, nowhere near as marked as your part of North America or Siberia.

(*) Despite the common perception. Parts of East Anglia are classified as semi-arid, in that they receive less than 50 cm of rain per annum. Cambridge gets less rain than Jerusalem or Marrakesh in most years. It has a lot of rainy weather but it tends to be drizzle rather than downpours. My characterization of British weather is "miserable but harmless", or, if you prefer a more up-beat assessment, "harmless but miserable" .

Really? Even the Netherlands has temperate weather. I didn't know that West North Sea was so sheltered from the Atlantic, given that the eastern half isn't so much.

Edit: Cambridge is around 12 degrees north of me, while it is about even with Saskatoon, which are around 2 degrees north of Regina. (For a more European perspective, I am a bit south of Madrid and Napoli, and a bit north of Athens.)

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Dubslow

Really? Even the Netherlands has temperate weather. I didn't know that West North Sea was so sheltered from the Atlantic, given that the eastern half isn't so much.

Really. Cambridge and the Netherlands both have temperate weather but, even so, the western half of the British Isles are both warmer and wetter than the eastern. South west Scotland is markedly milder than East Anglia, despite being a few hundred miles further north.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by Dubslow

Edit: Cambridge is around 12 degrees north of me, while it is about even with Saskatoon, which are around 2 degrees north of Regina. (For a more European perspective, I am a bit south of Madrid and Napoli, and a bit north of Athens.)

Latitude is not the only variable. Imagine that you (and everyone else) are surrounded by different (but interconnected) capacitors.

It gets really complicated really fast....

[kladner]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Latitude is not the only variable. Imagine that you (and everyone else) are surrounded by different (but interconnected) capacitors.

It gets really complicated really fast....

Could you elucidate that interesting analogy? I have ideas, but I'd like to know how you meant it.

[VictordeHolland]

Originally Posted by xilman

Really. Cambridge and the Netherlands both have temperate weather but, even so, the western half of the British Isles are both warmer and wetter than the eastern. South west Scotland is markedly milder than East Anglia, despite being a few hundred miles further north.

In the Netherlands we get 800-1000mm of precipitation each year, but sometimes it feels like ten times that. On most days it just drizzles for the entire day and downpours are quite rare.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by kladner

Could you elucidate that interesting analogy? I have ideas, but I'd like to know how you meant it.

Sure.

Imagine that every human is part of a circuit, a very complex circuit. Imagine that every human is a resister; a consumer of energy.

Then, imagine that the circuit within which we all live is effectively closed. Thus, the options are only resistive, conductive, capacitive or radiative.

Hmmmm... I didn't realize I could reduce life to electrical properties....