Bitter Winter.

[Richard Cameron]

Originally Posted by mfgoode

The word 'Bitter' is a relative term. Bitter as compared to what? To winters in your experience which were more bitter before? To winters 100 years ago?
...

A few sunny days does not make a winter. We have to let it pass before we can assess it.

A few sunny afternoons in Merry ole England cannot negate the fact that English winters are harsh if not bitter.

I'm confused by what you are trying to say here, Mally: You have evidence from europe and north america that the northern winter is less 'bitter' (or cold or harsh or whatever) than usual so far this year. Clearly theres plenty of time for things to change, but so far, so mild. And its half way through January, this is more than a few sunny afternoons.

If you are saying that winter is 'bitter' compared to summer then I have to agree with you, but thats not very profound!


Richard

[xilman]

Originally Posted by mfgoode

:A few sunny afternoons in Merry ole England cannot negate the fact that English winters are harsh if not bitter. In England ,weather plays an important part in peoples lives. Why they have nothing to talk about except the bad weather!

The British talk about the weather, IMO, not because it is bad but because there is a lot of it! We talk about good weather as well as about bad weather. The position of the UK leads the weather to be changing almost all the time. We usually get a few blocking highs per annum which tend to give us the same heat (in summer) or cold (in winter) for days at a time but otherwise the sucession of cyclones and anticyclones sweeping over gives us great variability.

I take issue with the use of the word "harsh" as applied to the Birish climate for the last hundred years or so. It is occasionally harsh (I well remember the winter of 1963, and my parents that of 1948) but almost all the time the climate is best described as "miserable but harmless" or, possibly, "harmless but miserable". It's pleasant moderately often, and that much much more often than it is harsh.

I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact, but it is not uncommon In Britain for the coldest day in August to be colder than the warmest day in January. That's how equable the British climate is. Sometimes the temperature reaches 15C or so in January but fails to get over 12C or so in August.

Paul

[mfgoode]

Originally Posted by davieddy

Thanks. That figures. Similar to sun being redder/dimmer when
near horizon

David

Well I beg to differ from both of you Dave and Paul.

The appearance of the sun from the earth depends largely due to the refraction of the sunlight passing through the earth's atmosphere at the diferent angles of refraction (or incidence if you wish though they are different) but have the same effective illusion.

It is not due to the local phenomena that occurs on the sun. Yes the solar flares that occur by emitting mass for thousands of miles from the sun's surface do have some effects on the earth but these are not heat disturbances but electromagnetic, for instance radio waves etc.

Regards the visible diameter of the sun I have had the good fortune of observing and watching sunrise and sunsets as North as the Northern lights flying near the N.Pole and on mountains like Tiger Hill in Darjeeling and the tips of southern hemisphere at Kanykumari in South India, Mauritius in the Indian ocean and from Durban (S.Africa} Fiji Islands and Sydney in Australia.

The most breath taking was at Tiger Hill when the sun's rays first hit the top of Mt. Everest. Its relative size without exaggeration was about 10 feet in diameter. In the S. Hemisphere at sunrise the sun seems to be about 3 ft in dia. at the places I have mentioned At sunset the sun can be viewed with the naked eye without damage and one can literally see it descend into the ocean (Indian in my case)

Now if someone replies from New Zealand or South Africa disputing the 3' size let me explain that this is not an all year phenomena and depends on the weather there and the climate prevailing at the time, period. and that too requires multiple viewings

Hey guys instead of cribbing and quibling about the weather book your flights to Goa Or Trivandrum on a charter this winter of the little thats left and see for your self why I call the English weather harsh.

As I said it is a relative term.

Mally

[xilman]

Originally Posted by mfgoode

Well I beg to differ from both of you Dave and Paul.

The appearance of the sun from the earth depends largely due to the refraction of the sunlight passing through the earth's atmosphere at the diferent angles of refraction (or incidence if you wish though they are different) but have the same effective illusion.

It is not due to the local phenomena that occurs on the sun. Yes the solar flares that occur by emitting mass for thousands of miles from the sun's surface do have some effects on the earth but these are not heat disturbances but electromagnetic, for instance radio waves etc.

Mally: perform the observation for yourself.

Reduce the brightness of the solar disk to the point where it can be examined with comfort. I assure you that you will see that the centre of the disk is brighter than the rim, exactly as I stated and for exactly the reason given.

It really is an easy observation and the phenomenon is easily detected.


It is amazing how few people actually pay attention to natural phenomena all around them. I once attended an exhibition of paintings with one of my brothers-in-law, an artist and painting restorer., At that event he criticised the work of another modern artist for the "completely unrealistic" turquoise colour of the sky as depicted. That very evening on the way home I pointed out that the sky shortly after sunset was that very shade of blue-green.


Paul

[M29]

Originally Posted by mfgoode

Since those who are in the Northern Hemisphere are experiencing a bitter winter

The western USA has been cold. It snowed in the outskirts of Los Angeles.

Originally Posted by mfgoode

I think the U.S. has had a tough time what with the hurricanes and tornados.

Predictions were quite wrong. 2006 was a mild year for hurricanes.

Originally Posted by mfgoode

I hear that a huge junk of ice is floating south from the Northern parts of Europe.

Off Ellesmere Island in Canada's north.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by xilman

you will very easily see that the centre is markedly brighter than the edge.

The astronomical term is "limb darkening". It is caused by the light from the limb of the sun having to pass through much more of the solar atmosphere before reaching us.

Originally Posted by davieddy

Similar to sun being redder/dimmer when near horizon

Originally Posted by mfgoode

It is not due to the local phenomena that occurs on the sun.

Originally Posted by xilman

Mally: perform the observation for yourself.

Reduce the brightness of the solar disk to the point where it can be examined with comfort. I assure you that you will see that the centre of the disk is brighter than the rim, exactly as I stated and for exactly the reason given.

It really is an easy observation and the phenomenon is easily detected.

Paul, David, and Mally, you're all correct!!!

Limb darkening refers to a situation where the observer is outside the atmosphere of a luminous source. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limb_darkening

Atmospheric extinction refers to a situation where the observer is viewing a luminous source through the observer's own local atmosphere. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinct...ric_extinction

They are analogous, as David implied, and can be simultaneous, as earthbound observers can see when suitably watching a rising/setting star or planet.

- - -

(Oh, and:

Mally, I knew right away you meant bitter in relation to your Mumbai climate, not in relation to the average climates of regions farther north.)

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by M29

The western USA has been cold. It snowed in the outskirts of Los Angeles.

The average snowfall at Mount Wilson (where Hubble did all of his observing), which is ~20km from Los Angeles's downtown, 14 inches (35cm) annually.
http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliRECtM.pl?ca6006
And here is a picture of the city and snow http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auck...losangeles.asp

[mfgoode]

It is well established that global warming is affecting the earth this century.
I give below a glimpse of what lies ahead.

http://environment.newscientist.com/...mg19325874.000

Mally

[Fusion_power]

Now we are having more normal weather Mally. Its about 30F at night and 50F for a daytime high. Thats typical for this area and this time of year. My concern is that we had 6 weeks of unseasonably warm weather up to the middle of January.


As for your global warming post, sorry, but its not scientifically based and has nothing but anecdotal evidence. Earth was in the throes of an ice age just over 10,000 years ago. The ice melted. Now more ice is melting. Is it because the earth is in a warming cycle? Or is it because man's pollution is modifying the heat collecting ability of the earth? Don't just throw opinions! Find some serious proof.

Fusion

[S485122]

Independently of the causes and the reality of global warming, it is a proven fact that human activity in the last fifty years has changed the earth ecosystem in a significant way. This has been done, without any understanding of the possible consequences. Currently the world is "managed" with only one criterion : the evolution of stocks. In my opinion this is a very limited point of view and ignores most of the parameters that should be taken into account for decision making. "Après nous le déluge" or "After us the deluge" seems to be the motto of the day.

[japelprime]

I need to have gloves and thick clothes to go outside to day. There is -11 °C clear sky, sun and snow. Many will be going skiing to day. I am in Hafnarfjordur (Hafnarfjörður) , Iceland.