Tricky Problem with AMD 3700+

pseudorandom · 2006-01-20, 03:34

So here's the problem:

My system runs without errors in Memtest86,
and in (XP-sp2) safe mode I can run prime 95 without any errors as well.
But, windows crashes almost all the time before I get to the
desktop when I'm starting up not in safe mode. Also, I have Ubuntu
linux installed, but even though I can get to the desktop there, that
soon crashes as well. I'm unable to sucessfully start up using the
ubuntu live cds (i386 version or 64 version). I used to be able to do all
these things sucessfully except for passing prime 95 and memtest86.

I have managed to get the computer to start up running the puppy linux
live CD, but even though mozilla works, it frequently crashes as well.

Any guesses on where the problem is localized? Video card?

Earlier, I couldn't pass prime 95 at all, or memtest86, so I've gone through
the loop of RMA'ing my motherboard, ram, and proccesser, all at different times. Before, i could start up with out too many problems, but would fail when testing and would experience intermitant crashes. Now, I can finally pass the tests, but only in these very restricted environments.

I'm pretty frustrated with my computer. Any suggestions?

Thanks

My System:
Socket 754 AMD64 3700+
MSI K8N Neo Platnium MB
350 Watt Antec True Power
512 mb OCZ pc32000 el platinum
Radeon Saphire 9800 128mb

moo · 2006-01-20, 05:30

how many sticks of ram do you have.

pseudorandom · 2006-01-20, 06:54

I have one stick of ram in the computer. I own a second identical one, but when I put that one in, it gives me errors, so im just running with the one error free stick.

Cruelty · 2006-01-20, 08:50

I have started my A64 experience with exactly the same motherboard you have, and it was really a painfull experience for me... also it was the very first board I had, that actually died.
AFAIR, there were numerous problems with USB compatibility, SATA compatibility and finally RAM configuration was a nightmare

By the time they released some decent BIOS and I figured out how to set everything up, the board died, which was the best thing that could happened then

But getting back to your problem: have you changed anything in your configuration lately, e.g. new CPU, new USB devices? Does all of your USB ports are visible in "hardware manager", or do you have some "unknown devices" there?
I am also not sure about your PSU, in my case I had to change it from 350W to 470W to obtain stability, and it took me some time to find a RAM that actually worked with this board.
Other suggestions: check if you have the newest BIOS and also check http://forum.msi.com.tw for more hints on this board - I was not the only one at that time to have problems with this board.

moo · 2006-01-20, 13:12

Good brands that i have used
machspeed they have lifetime warrentys, great documentation online.
soyo these are nice boards they last long and are durable
dfi i just tried this one lately it booted perfect the first time with an a64
i wouldnt buy
asus we have these in are A+ lab at school there hard to work with
abit same as asus
chaintech not very good engineering in my standpoint lacks a few features that all newer motherboards should have

Cruelty · 2006-01-20, 13:56

So far I have experience with the following brands:
- ABIT (overall mixed experience as the quality differs from board to board, so it is hard to say definitely, some are great others are crap)
- ASUS (apart from the BIOS, which I can't get used to, they are solid and stable... and too expensive)
- MSI (no thank you!)
- DFI (good price/performance ratio, the only thing that REALLY sucks are the active coolers on the northbridge - loud and less effective than passive Zalman ones)
- EPOX/NMC (usually problematic until their tech people do not release a proper BIOS)

pseudorandom · 2006-01-20, 17:02

>But getting back to your problem: have you changed anything in your >configuration lately, e.g. new CPU, new USB devices?

Yes, I RMA'd the CPU, so I just put in a new one. Not really any usb devices, though only the USB ports on the MB worked before, I could never get the ones on the front panel to work.

Also, today I'm unable to even boot into safe mode. The computer shows that it's starting windows, then reboots.

So do you think I should try replacing the Motherboard?

Thanks again for the help

Cruelty · 2006-01-20, 17:29

Unplug the front USB panel from your motherboard - AFAIR those panels are not compatible with this board and can cause trouble.
Also you may want to reset CMOS. Check if the CPU fan is working. What are the idle temperatures and voltages reported in BIOS?

pseudorandom · 2006-01-20, 22:57

The Idle processor temp is 42C, and under prime 95 load it's 65c.

+12 is 11.92V,
Core 0 is 1.55V,
and + 3.3 3.33V

So, I changed a few setting and my computer is working more now.
Earlier, I had my MB doing the memory timings auto, but then I went
to the ocz site, and entered their setting, which didn't actually imporove
anything.
PC3200 EL Platinum
CAS 2
Trp 2
Trcd 3
Tras 5
FSB 200

After putting those in, I decided to bump them all up and changed to
CAS 2.5
Trp 3
Trcd 4
Tras 6
FSB 200

Once I put these new timings in, things work much better, and I can boot into XP without a problem. I ran Prime95 for 3 hours sucessfully, and then the computer blue screened, and rebooted. I consider this a moderate sucess, but if I want to increase stability more, should I increase all the timinigs, or just one specific one. Do you think that the error is most likely in the timings, or there could still be some other error?

Thanks

Cruelty · 2006-01-22, 13:36

At 65C at full load, your CPU is too hot, try to run it with your computer case open to see if that changes anything.
If that doesn't help, then remove CPU cooler, clean it up (and the CPU too), re-apply thermal paste and try it again.

2006-01-22, 18:17

Pull the heat sink again and look at it carefuly. If the CPU surface is mis shaped at all you will get those temps. My 3700+ was doing that to drove me nuts till i took a moto tool and groung the heat sink were I could see the corners from the cpu hitting the heat sink.

I Checked the cpu surface with a stright edege and fillergage and it was .002 concave. After grinding on the HS for about 5 min (just the spots its hitting on the corners) polished it up and now 52C is tops and with the side off never gets abouve 45C Idle at 29C

2006-01-20, 03:34	#1
pseudorandom Jan 2006 100₂ Posts	Tricky Problem with AMD 3700+ So here's the problem: My system runs without errors in Memtest86, and in (XP-sp2) safe mode I can run prime 95 without any errors as well. But, windows crashes almost all the time before I get to the desktop when I'm starting up not in safe mode. Also, I have Ubuntu linux installed, but even though I can get to the desktop there, that soon crashes as well. I'm unable to sucessfully start up using the ubuntu live cds (i386 version or 64 version). I used to be able to do all these things sucessfully except for passing prime 95 and memtest86. I have managed to get the computer to start up running the puppy linux live CD, but even though mozilla works, it frequently crashes as well. Any guesses on where the problem is localized? Video card? Earlier, I couldn't pass prime 95 at all, or memtest86, so I've gone through the loop of RMA'ing my motherboard, ram, and proccesser, all at different times. Before, i could start up with out too many problems, but would fail when testing and would experience intermitant crashes. Now, I can finally pass the tests, but only in these very restricted environments. I'm pretty frustrated with my computer. Any suggestions? Thanks My System: Socket 754 AMD64 3700+ MSI K8N Neo Platnium MB 350 Watt Antec True Power 512 mb OCZ pc32000 el platinum Radeon Saphire 9800 128mb

2006-01-20, 08:50	#4
Cruelty May 2005 3134₈ Posts	I have started my A64 experience with exactly the same motherboard you have, and it was really a painfull experience for me... also it was the very first board I had, that actually died. AFAIR, there were numerous problems with USB compatibility, SATA compatibility and finally RAM configuration was a nightmare By the time they released some decent BIOS and I figured out how to set everything up, the board died, which was the best thing that could happened then But getting back to your problem: have you changed anything in your configuration lately, e.g. new CPU, new USB devices? Does all of your USB ports are visible in "hardware manager", or do you have some "unknown devices" there? I am also not sure about your PSU, in my case I had to change it from 350W to 470W to obtain stability, and it took me some time to find a RAM that actually worked with this board. Other suggestions: check if you have the newest BIOS and also check http://forum.msi.com.tw for more hints on this board - I was not the only one at that time to have problems with this board. Last fiddled with by Cruelty on 2006-01-20 at 08:50

2006-01-20, 13:56	#6
Cruelty May 2005 2²×11×37 Posts	So far I have experience with the following brands: - ABIT (overall mixed experience as the quality differs from board to board, so it is hard to say definitely, some are great others are crap) - ASUS (apart from the BIOS, which I can't get used to, they are solid and stable... and too expensive) - MSI (no thank you!) - DFI (good price/performance ratio, the only thing that REALLY sucks are the active coolers on the northbridge - loud and less effective than passive Zalman ones) - EPOX/NMC (usually problematic until their tech people do not release a proper BIOS) Last fiddled with by Cruelty on 2006-01-20 at 13:59

2006-01-22, 18:17	#11
Jetster 2·3²·13·41 Posts	Pull the heat sink again and look at it carefuly. If the CPU surface is mis shaped at all you will get those temps. My 3700+ was doing that to drove me nuts till i took a moto tool and groung the heat sink were I could see the corners from the cpu hitting the heat sink. I Checked the cpu surface with a stright edege and fillergage and it was .002 concave. After grinding on the HS for about 5 min (just the spots its hitting on the corners) polished it up and now 52C is tops and with the side off never gets abouve 45C Idle at 29C Last fiddled with by Jetster on 2006-01-22 at 18:18

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2006-01-20, 05:30	#2
moo Jul 2004 Nowhere 329₁₆ Posts	how many sticks of ram do you have.

2006-01-20, 06:54	#3
pseudorandom Jan 2006 4₁₆ Posts	I have one stick of ram in the computer. I own a second identical one, but when I put that one in, it gives me errors, so im just running with the one error free stick.

2006-01-20, 13:12	#5
moo Jul 2004 Nowhere 1451₈ Posts	Good brands that i have used machspeed they have lifetime warrentys, great documentation online. soyo these are nice boards they last long and are durable dfi i just tried this one lately it booted perfect the first time with an a64 i wouldnt buy asus we have these in are A+ lab at school there hard to work with abit same as asus chaintech not very good engineering in my standpoint lacks a few features that all newer motherboards should have

2006-01-20, 17:02	#7
pseudorandom Jan 2006 4₁₆ Posts	>But getting back to your problem: have you changed anything in your >configuration lately, e.g. new CPU, new USB devices? Yes, I RMA'd the CPU, so I just put in a new one. Not really any usb devices, though only the USB ports on the MB worked before, I could never get the ones on the front panel to work. Also, today I'm unable to even boot into safe mode. The computer shows that it's starting windows, then reboots. So do you think I should try replacing the Motherboard? Thanks again for the help

2006-01-20, 17:29	#8
Cruelty May 2005 2²·11·37 Posts	Unplug the front USB panel from your motherboard - AFAIR those panels are not compatible with this board and can cause trouble. Also you may want to reset CMOS. Check if the CPU fan is working. What are the idle temperatures and voltages reported in BIOS?

2006-01-20, 22:57	#9
pseudorandom Jan 2006 4₁₆ Posts	The Idle processor temp is 42C, and under prime 95 load it's 65c. +12 is 11.92V, Core 0 is 1.55V, and + 3.3 3.33V So, I changed a few setting and my computer is working more now. Earlier, I had my MB doing the memory timings auto, but then I went to the ocz site, and entered their setting, which didn't actually imporove anything. PC3200 EL Platinum CAS 2 Trp 2 Trcd 3 Tras 5 FSB 200 After putting those in, I decided to bump them all up and changed to CAS 2.5 Trp 3 Trcd 4 Tras 6 FSB 200 Once I put these new timings in, things work much better, and I can boot into XP without a problem. I ran Prime95 for 3 hours sucessfully, and then the computer blue screened, and rebooted. I consider this a moderate sucess, but if I want to increase stability more, should I increase all the timinigs, or just one specific one. Do you think that the error is most likely in the timings, or there could still be some other error? Thanks

2006-01-22, 13:36	#10
Cruelty May 2005 2²·11·37 Posts	At 65C at full load, your CPU is too hot, try to run it with your computer case open to see if that changes anything. If that doesn't help, then remove CPU cooler, clean it up (and the CPU too), re-apply thermal paste and try it again.