New PC II

Orgasmic Troll · 2005-09-08, 17:51

I didn't want to clutter George's thread, so I'm starting a new one. I'm getting a new computer for school, paid for by financial aid, I have about $1750 to spend (pre-tax) and I want to get the most bang for the buck. I'm currently using a Mac laptop and I would like to complement it with a desktop PC, however, last time I went shopping for a PC, Pentium II 450's were top of the line, and y'all are the most hardware savvy people I know.

Above all else, I need to show proof of purchase to the financial aid office, otherwise they revoke the funds. I imagine this rules out buying components and building a system myself (regardless, I have had awful experiences with custom built computers and would prefer to avoid the hassle)

Considerations:
I do a lot of graphic design work (photoshop, illustrator, etc.)
I do a little music production
I may do some video editing/animation in the future (I used to do 3D animation and would like to dabble again, but it's a very minor consideration)
I am not a gamer. If I play games, they're on a console, and I haven't even owned a console in 6 months

Any advice?

Prime95 · 2005-09-08, 19:02

I've had good luck with Dell computers (one laptop and one desktop). They let you customize the parts and software included. Repairs have been no fuss (2 replacements of laptop fans).

Your first decision is AMD vs. Intel. Not speaking from personal experience, I understand that the fast P4s are very slightly better than AMD64s at video encoding and graphics. Intel P4 is better at prime95. AMD64 is better at everything else. For video and graphics work a dual processor can be useful.

If the school is not footing your power bill, then go with the AMD64.

You'll probably want lots of memory too.

Why not configure a Dell machine in your price range, then find an AMD dealer and price their machine. Post the two possibilities here for comment.

Orgasmic Troll · 2005-09-08, 20:45

Dell Dimension 9100:
Pentium� D Processor 830
Microsoft� Windows� XP Professional
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs
80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
Dual Drives: 16x DVD+/-RW Drive + 16x DVD-ROM Drive
19 inch E193FP Analog Flat Panel
128MB PCI Express� x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon� X300 SE
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Wireless adapter (the network in my house is WiFi)
Dell Laser Printer 1100

$1746 before tax and shipping

Pricing options:
Pentium� D Processor 820 [subtract $170]
Pentium� D Processor 840 [add $240]

1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs [subtract $160]
4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs [add $270]

160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive [add $40]

16x DVD-ROM Drive + 48x CD-RW Drive [subtract $40]
48x CD-RW Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ double layer write capable [add $20]

256MB ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory [add $40]
256MB nVidia GeForce 6800 [add $220]
256MB Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX [add $630]

Sound Blaster� Live! 24-bit ADVANCED HD� Audio [add $25]
Sound Blaster Audigy�2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 [add $70]

Any ideas on where to find an AMD dealer?

JHagerson · 2005-09-08, 22:22

Take a look at http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/athlon_sys.asp

Peter Nelson · 2005-09-08, 22:35

Re the suggestion of Dell.

Dell have a big share of the PC market by volume.

Originally they had a good reputation.

Then more recently they decided to use cheaper "whitebox" type components and their reliability and support declined in the perception of customers.

Recently I think they intended to go more high quality again but I cannot say from experience whether this happenned.

They MIGHT be ok value, however, be very careful with add on configs like eg hard drive or memory upgrades as you may pay through the roof.

If you have a fixed budget from the aid maybe you could spend it all on a dell machine with good specs but low memory etc. Then put some of your own money to supplement the memory using CHEAP (non-dell sourced) RAM.

As pointed out one of your main choices is AMD or Intel processor. If you choose AMD, I dont think Dell make machines with AMD inside therefore you may have to look at other manufacturers.

sdbardwick · 2005-09-08, 22:58

Be sure to look for Dell discount coupons at www.techbargains.com www.gotapex.com and www.fatwallet.com as there are often substantial discounts available. Right now, there is a 35% off select Dimension desktops.
For example:

Code:

SYSTEM COMPONENTS Dimension 9100 Qty 1 Pentium� D Processor 830 with Dual Core Technology (3GHz, 800FSB), Microsoft� Windows� XP Professional
 
Unit Price $2,406.00
 
Save 35% - $842.10 
 
TOTAL:$1,662.90
 
Module Description Dell Dimension 9100
Pentium� D Processor 830 with Dual Core Technology (3GHz, 800FSB)Operating SystemMicrosoft� Windows� XP Professional
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard
Monitors FREE UPGRADE! 19 inch E193FP Analog Flat Panel
Video Cards 256MB PCI Express� x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory
Hard Drives 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache�
Floppy Drive and Media ReaderNo Floppy Drive Included
MouseDell Optical USB Mouse
Network InterfaceIntegrated 10/100 Ethernet
Modem56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Adobe SoftwareAdobe� Acrobat� Reader 6.0
CD or DVD DriveDual Drives: 48x CD-RW Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ double layer write capable
Sound Card Sound Blaster Audigy�2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394
SpeakersDell A425 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
Office Productivity Software No Productivity Suite - Corel WordPerfect� word processor only
Security SoftwareNo Security Subscription
Digital MusicMusicmatch� Jukebox Basic
Digital PhotographyPhoto Album� SE 
BasicLimited Warranty, Services and Support Options2Yr Ltd Warranty, 2Yr At-Home Service, and 2Yr Technical Support
Installation ServicesNo Installation 
Internet Access Service6 Months of America Online Membership IncludedMiscellaneousAward Winning Service and Support
Financial Software (Preinstalled)No QuickBooks package selected- Includes limited use trial
Wireless Networking Card Dell Wireless; 1450 WLAN (802.11a/b/g) USB 2.0 DT Adapter
Laser Printer 1100 Qty 1 Dell 1100 Laser PrinterUnit Price $99.00
Dell 1100 Laser PrinterLimited Warranty, Services and Support Options90 Day Ltd. Warranty, 1 yr Technical Support, 90 Day Advance Exchange
TOTAL:$1,662.90

Personally, I'd get a different (non-usb) WiFi adapter, but I didn't see one on the Dell configuration page.

Prime95 · 2005-09-09, 00:26

I'd stay away from the GeForce with Turbocache and Radeon SE as they use your system memory.

I'm not sure how powerful a video card you need for video editing.

sdbardwick · 2005-09-09, 01:54

I really did not mean to suggest a specific configuration, but rather intended to show that one can use the discount coupons to obtain a more capable system for around the same price.

With 256MB of dedicated video memory, HyperMemory (I have no experience with TurboCache) really doesn't come into play except in 3D games at high detail/resolutions; it doesn't automatically use large amounts of system memory for everyday tasks. Even so, the performance degradation in PCIe systems is much less than with the UMA systems of old. In the more recent AGP based UMA systems (Shuttle SS51G, for example) the increase in iteration times is about 3% (at 640x480x8) when using the integrated video rather than an AGP or PCI card.

HP's online store allows you to configure AMD systems, but they will not be competitively priced to Dell unless HP starts to offer similar % off coupons.

Prime95 · 2005-09-09, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdbardwick

With 256MB of dedicated video memory...

Video cards may be sold as 256 MB cards even with only 16 MB of onboard memory -- because they use turbo cache or SE to come to 256MB.

sdbardwick · 2005-09-09, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prime95

Video cards may be sold as 256 MB cards even with only 16 MB of onboard memory -- because they use turbo cache or SE to come to 256MB.

Holy Cr*p! I cannot believe that Dell et al are advertising this way with only a tiny footnote, especially as they use the memory size delta as a point of differentiation between cards. Both the 128MB and "256"MB cards have 128MB onboard.
That is akin to saying the systems come equipped with 250 GBytes memory, because the OS can use the HD for paging. UGH. I thought we were past such technically factually accurate but misleading advertising; apparently the CRT visible image size lesson hasn't been fully understood. I'm truly tempted to send a note off to my contact at Milberg Weiss Bershad Hynes & Lerach (class action lawfirm). Might even get a referral fee...

Prime95 · 2005-09-09, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdbardwick

I cannot believe that Dell et al are advertising this way with only a tiny footnote

I first noticed this on newegg after getting a tip in a hardware forum. I suspect the problem originates at the video card manufacturer -- 256MB in big letters on the box cover, 16MB in fine print on the back.

2005-09-08, 17:51	#1
Orgasmic Troll Cranksta Rap Ayatollah Jul 2003 641 Posts	New PC II I didn't want to clutter George's thread, so I'm starting a new one. I'm getting a new computer for school, paid for by financial aid, I have about $1750 to spend (pre-tax) and I want to get the most bang for the buck. I'm currently using a Mac laptop and I would like to complement it with a desktop PC, however, last time I went shopping for a PC, Pentium II 450's were top of the line, and y'all are the most hardware savvy people I know. Above all else, I need to show proof of purchase to the financial aid office, otherwise they revoke the funds. I imagine this rules out buying components and building a system myself (regardless, I have had awful experiences with custom built computers and would prefer to avoid the hassle) Considerations: I do a lot of graphic design work (photoshop, illustrator, etc.) I do a little music production I may do some video editing/animation in the future (I used to do 3D animation and would like to dabble again, but it's a very minor consideration) I am not a gamer. If I play games, they're on a console, and I haven't even owned a console in 6 months Any advice?

2005-09-09, 01:54	#8
sdbardwick Aug 2002 North San Diego County 2AD₁₆ Posts	I really did not mean to suggest a specific configuration, but rather intended to show that one can use the discount coupons to obtain a more capable system for around the same price. With 256MB of dedicated video memory, HyperMemory (I have no experience with TurboCache) really doesn't come into play except in 3D games at high detail/resolutions; it doesn't automatically use large amounts of system memory for everyday tasks. Even so, the performance degradation in PCIe systems is much less than with the UMA systems of old. In the more recent AGP based UMA systems (Shuttle SS51G, for example) the increase in iteration times is about 3% (at 640x480x8) when using the integrated video rather than an AGP or PCI card. HP's online store allows you to configure AMD systems, but they will not be competitively priced to Dell unless HP starts to offer similar % off coupons. Last fiddled with by sdbardwick on 2005-09-09 at 02:07

2005-09-08, 19:02	#2
Prime95 P90 years forever! Aug 2002 Yeehaw, FL 7543₁₀ Posts	I've had good luck with Dell computers (one laptop and one desktop). They let you customize the parts and software included. Repairs have been no fuss (2 replacements of laptop fans). Your first decision is AMD vs. Intel. Not speaking from personal experience, I understand that the fast P4s are very slightly better than AMD64s at video encoding and graphics. Intel P4 is better at prime95. AMD64 is better at everything else. For video and graphics work a dual processor can be useful. If the school is not footing your power bill, then go with the AMD64. You'll probably want lots of memory too. Why not configure a Dell machine in your price range, then find an AMD dealer and price their machine. Post the two possibilities here for comment.

2005-09-08, 20:45	#3
Orgasmic Troll Cranksta Rap Ayatollah Jul 2003 641 Posts	Dell Dimension 9100: Pentium� D Processor 830 Microsoft� Windows� XP Professional 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD+/-RW Drive + 16x DVD-ROM Drive 19 inch E193FP Analog Flat Panel 128MB PCI Express� x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon� X300 SE Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio Wireless adapter (the network in my house is WiFi) Dell Laser Printer 1100 $1746 before tax and shipping Pricing options: Pentium� D Processor 820 [subtract $170] Pentium� D Processor 840 [add $240] 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs [subtract $160] 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs [add $270] 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive [add $40] 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 48x CD-RW Drive [subtract $40] 48x CD-RW Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ double layer write capable [add $20] 256MB ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory [add $40] 256MB nVidia GeForce 6800 [add $220] 256MB Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX [add $630] Sound Blaster� Live! 24-bit ADVANCED HD� Audio [add $25] Sound Blaster Audigy�2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 [add $70] Any ideas on where to find an AMD dealer?

2005-09-08, 22:22	#4
JHagerson May 2005 Naperville, IL, USA 2²·7² Posts	Take a look at http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/athlon_sys.asp

2005-09-08, 22:35	#5
Peter Nelson Oct 2004 1000010001₂ Posts	Re the suggestion of Dell. Dell have a big share of the PC market by volume. Originally they had a good reputation. Then more recently they decided to use cheaper "whitebox" type components and their reliability and support declined in the perception of customers. Recently I think they intended to go more high quality again but I cannot say from experience whether this happenned. They MIGHT be ok value, however, be very careful with add on configs like eg hard drive or memory upgrades as you may pay through the roof. If you have a fixed budget from the aid maybe you could spend it all on a dell machine with good specs but low memory etc. Then put some of your own money to supplement the memory using CHEAP (non-dell sourced) RAM. As pointed out one of your main choices is AMD or Intel processor. If you choose AMD, I dont think Dell make machines with AMD inside therefore you may have to look at other manufacturers.

2005-09-09, 00:26	#7
Prime95 P90 years forever! Aug 2002 Yeehaw, FL 19×397 Posts	I'd stay away from the GeForce with Turbocache and Radeon SE as they use your system memory. I'm not sure how powerful a video card you need for video editing.