Isolated the problem, now what? - Page 3

thermalMan · 2005-03-29, 03:10

This is Windows XP SP2, with all the patches...

Underclock the CPU? The goal would be to bring it back to it's stock speed right?

dsouza123 · 2005-03-29, 20:50

Yes, that is the goal.

Right now it could be
RAM (bad, or running too fast (maybe isn't up to it's own spec), insufficient voltage)
CPU (overheating (heat not removed, poor thermal conduction), insufficient voltage)
MB/Chipset (overheating)
OS/APPS (interaction with other software: driver not restoring registers/FPU status, other program not restoring registers/FPU status)

Settings:
With the CPU underclocked 1/2 speed and memory set to conservative settings,
side panel(s) removed to reduce heat.
Running in Safe Mode, (different generic drivers are run, also only minimal services are run).

Most likely in order
marginal RAM at given spec, MB/Chipset overheating, CPU, OS/APPS.

If it runs stable in with above Settings, increase the CPU speed until unstable.
If RAM is the issue even the minimal settings wont be stable.

Kosmaj · 2005-03-30, 05:39

Doesn't sound like a CPU overheatting problem because with the side panel off it was supposed to run at least a little bit longer without errors. Which brings us back to the beginning... with the order of probable failurs as listed by dsouza above.

Can you try again memory tests, one stick at the time, first Prime95 blend, then on failure several passes of memtest86+ followed by several passes of Win Memory Diagnostics (be sure to select the extended Memory Map 820(3) in advanced options).

Also, can you tell us what components in your system are new. You said you had 2100+ before and got a new CPU. Have you used the same DIMM's before or you got new ones?

thermalMan · 2005-03-30, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosmaj

Can you try again memory tests, one stick at the time, first Prime95 blend, then on failure several passes of memtest86+ followed by several passes of Win Memory Diagnostics (be sure to select the extended Memory Map 820(3) in advanced options).

I'll try Win Memory Diag again with the option that you have mentionned. Is there a need to use memtest86 again if I didn't get any errors while having both dimms running in dual channel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosmaj

Also, can you tell us what components in your system are new. You said you had 2100+ before and got a new CPU. Have you used the same DIMM's before or you got new ones?

All of the components remained the same, I just swapped the CPU (2100+) for a new one (3000+). The OS also remained the same. I just applied the latest MS patches.

thermalMan · 2005-03-31, 13:36

Okay, ran MS Memory Diagnostics using the 820(3) option. It ran overnight without any problems detected.

I tried Prime95 in safe mode and it too, gave me the hardware error within 2 minutes.

I'm going to try to underclock the CPU and see if that solves anything. Actually, how does one underclock a CPU? By simply selecting a smaller multiplier number?

dsouza123 · 2005-03-31, 14:32

A lower multiplier is the easiest way,
some motherboards also support a lower FSB but this
is more for small adjustments and not major changes
in speed which the multiplier does.

thermalMan · 2005-03-31, 15:58

How small should I go? I am at 13x right now. I saw 6x for instance.

dsouza123 · 2005-03-31, 18:01

6x is a good place to start.

Prime95 is the more dicerning test, it more thouroughly tests
the components and it has known correct results to compare to.

You want to find out if your PC can be stable at any speed.
If it can't run stable at the most minimal settings it points
to a hardware problem.

If it can run at a minimal level then it could be parts were
labeled higher than they really were.
For example the thermal compound might not be thin enough
or completely covering the surfaces in contact or the fan
isn't removing enough heat.
The memory could be labeled higher than it really can work
correctly.

Running minimal with case panels off will lessen the heat load.

thermalMan · 2005-04-01, 01:09

So far I have done the following:

FSB: 133Mhz Dual Channel
Multiplier 9.5x
CPU = 1733Mhz (underclocked from 2.17Ghz)

I ran the torchure test (blend) for 16 minutes which is 15 minutes more than at stock speed. However, my Barton seems to have a locked multiplier which stops me from trying various settings. Either I have full speed or the box doesn't post.

Somebody said something about voltages from my PSU, particularly the +12V was too low (11.67). Could this be the cause of some of my problems?

moo · 2005-04-01, 03:25

i went and checked ur mbm 5 output it seams ur fans are spinning very fast also i would point that voltages semm to be low in some ranges.

thermalMan · 2005-04-01, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by moo

i went and checked ur mbm 5 output it seams ur fans are spinning very fast also i would point that voltages semm to be low in some ranges.

How would I fix this? I did get a good Antec 400W PSU. I have 2 fans, 3 HD and 1 DVD Burner. I also have a SB Live Value and Geforce 3 Ti 200.

2005-03-30, 05:39	#25
Kosmaj Nov 2003 2×1,811 Posts	Doesn't sound like a CPU overheatting problem because with the side panel off it was supposed to run at least a little bit longer without errors. Which brings us back to the beginning... with the order of probable failurs as listed by dsouza above. Can you try again memory tests, one stick at the time, first Prime95 blend, then on failure several passes of memtest86+ followed by several passes of Win Memory Diagnostics (be sure to select the extended Memory Map 820(3) in advanced options). Also, can you tell us what components in your system are new. You said you had 2100+ before and got a new CPU. Have you used the same DIMM's before or you got new ones? Last fiddled with by Kosmaj on 2005-03-30 at 05:41

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2005-03-29, 03:10	#23
thermalMan Mar 2005 Ottawa, Canada, ON 5² Posts	This is Windows XP SP2, with all the patches... Underclock the CPU? The goal would be to bring it back to it's stock speed right?

2005-03-29, 20:50	#24
dsouza123 Sep 2002 2×331 Posts	Yes, that is the goal. Right now it could be RAM (bad, or running too fast (maybe isn't up to it's own spec), insufficient voltage) CPU (overheating (heat not removed, poor thermal conduction), insufficient voltage) MB/Chipset (overheating) OS/APPS (interaction with other software: driver not restoring registers/FPU status, other program not restoring registers/FPU status) Settings: With the CPU underclocked 1/2 speed and memory set to conservative settings, side panel(s) removed to reduce heat. Running in Safe Mode, (different generic drivers are run, also only minimal services are run). Most likely in order marginal RAM at given spec, MB/Chipset overheating, CPU, OS/APPS. If it runs stable in with above Settings, increase the CPU speed until unstable. If RAM is the issue even the minimal settings wont be stable.

2005-03-31, 13:36	#27
thermalMan Mar 2005 Ottawa, Canada, ON 5² Posts	Okay, ran MS Memory Diagnostics using the 820(3) option. It ran overnight without any problems detected. I tried Prime95 in safe mode and it too, gave me the hardware error within 2 minutes. I'm going to try to underclock the CPU and see if that solves anything. Actually, how does one underclock a CPU? By simply selecting a smaller multiplier number?

2005-03-31, 14:32	#28
dsouza123 Sep 2002 2·331 Posts	A lower multiplier is the easiest way, some motherboards also support a lower FSB but this is more for small adjustments and not major changes in speed which the multiplier does.

2005-03-31, 15:58	#29
thermalMan Mar 2005 Ottawa, Canada, ON 25₁₀ Posts	How small should I go? I am at 13x right now. I saw 6x for instance.

2005-03-31, 18:01	#30
dsouza123 Sep 2002 2×331 Posts	6x is a good place to start. Prime95 is the more dicerning test, it more thouroughly tests the components and it has known correct results to compare to. You want to find out if your PC can be stable at any speed. If it can't run stable at the most minimal settings it points to a hardware problem. If it can run at a minimal level then it could be parts were labeled higher than they really were. For example the thermal compound might not be thin enough or completely covering the surfaces in contact or the fan isn't removing enough heat. The memory could be labeled higher than it really can work correctly. Running minimal with case panels off will lessen the heat load.

2005-04-01, 01:09	#31
thermalMan Mar 2005 Ottawa, Canada, ON 5² Posts	So far I have done the following: FSB: 133Mhz Dual Channel Multiplier 9.5x CPU = 1733Mhz (underclocked from 2.17Ghz) I ran the torchure test (blend) for 16 minutes which is 15 minutes more than at stock speed. However, my Barton seems to have a locked multiplier which stops me from trying various settings. Either I have full speed or the box doesn't post. Somebody said something about voltages from my PSU, particularly the +12V was too low (11.67). Could this be the cause of some of my problems?

2005-04-01, 03:25	#32
moo Jul 2004 Nowhere 809 Posts	i went and checked ur mbm 5 output it seams ur fans are spinning very fast also i would point that voltages semm to be low in some ranges.