Poaching

[garo]

I like the idea that a poached return would be completely ignored by the server. Maybe could be used as a "No credit" Double Check. Then a poacher might get the idea that their contribution was not wanted nor accepted.

Yeah but then what about legitimate swapping of exponents such as been going on between daran and me?? If you give no credit I wouldn't do his exponents and if he doesn't have his exponents done he will not be a happy camper. I'm too tired to explain why so use the search function!

And for God's sake cheesehead read the whole damn thread before getting your blood boiling about people "misinterpreting" your proposals. Remember that 99% of the poaching on GIMPS happens with the 100 trailing edge exponents.

[outlnder]

Garo, don't you turn your swapped exponents in using the other userID??
Which includes the person's password??

If you didn't, then how would daran get credit for an exponent you did??

[cheesehead]

To all:

I genuinely, sincerely withdraw my current proposal.

I regret that my placement of that declaration at the end of the preceding posting in which I replied to outlnder allowed it to be interpreted as an insincere or sarcastic response to outlnder, or anything else but a sincere, authemtic statement.

What happened is that as I composed my response to outlnder, I had a sudden inspiration for a better method to replace what I had proposed, and while I pondered that for a while, leading to my decision to withdraw my proposal, it didn't occur to me that my abnrupt announcement within the same posting would allow its misinterpretation.

[cheesehead]

Outlnder, I didn't get you wrong. As explained above, I unfortunately posted, after my previous response to you, what should have been separate.

Thanks for your kind comments.

Originally Posted by outlnder

Personnaly, I was hoping for a more stringent revelation from the ultimate power.

(If I were a student again, I'd insert my favorite Famous Professor On Campus joke here.) :)

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by garo

And for God's sake cheesehead read the whole damn thread before getting your blood boiling about people "misinterpreting" your proposals.

Before which specific blood-boiling(s) (please list date(s) and time(s) of posting(s), plus paragraph number(s) within posting(s) in which blood boiled and include relevant sentence quote(s)) about misinterpretation should I have read the whole damn thread but by which time you think I had not yet read the whole damn thread?

Remember that 99% of the poaching on GIMPS happens with the 100 trailing edge exponents.

What, exactly, does that have to do with misinterpretations of my proposal?

[Deamiter]

Geez, calm down man! Personally, I KNOW poaching is a "problem," but why does it REALLY matter? You stat whores out there would be well off to join a group like SETI@home which constistantly compete for stats, and has a great system for creating competitive teams. I'm doing Prime95, however because it's useful! Finding the next prime number seems like a rather noble goal, and honestly, I enjoy helping a cause that's not looking for cheep thrills (i.e. aliens).

Sit back, relax, and crunch some numbers. If some idiot grabbs YOUR exponent (yes it's happened to me, albeit only once) then be glad the exponent gets checked that much sooner! I'm not all for poaching, but I'm against people who get their shorts knotted up over science!

What it boils down to is this: You do not need credit! participate in the advance of basic scientific knowledge without whining about it. Either that, or go look for aliens...

[eepiccolo]

Originally Posted by Deamiter

What it boils down to is this: You do not need credit! participate in the advance of basic scientific knowledge without whining about it. Either that, or go look for aliens...

I think, Deamiter, that you statement is not really consistent with one of the things that are used to entice people to run GIMPS. One of the points is that you, as an individual, have an opportunity to make a mark in mathematical history. By poaching, the poacher has robbed the poached of resources that could have been used to possibly discover a new prime. Thus, the poached now has a dent in their potential to make history. I know this isn't a big-picture, community-like viewpoint, but it is human nature. And I don't think this is necessarily a bad part of human nature.

[eepiccolo]

I think I may need to clarify my statement wrt to what Deamiter has posted. Deamiter, desiring credit does not necessarily equal wanting to get to the top producers page, which is what I think you are saying. Like I said in my last post, credit could mean making a mark in mathematical history. This matter should not be treated flippantly.

[crash893]

please excuse me if some oen has already posted this idea


why not make it so the only person who can get credit for a exponet is the person who has checked it out in the last XX months

that way some one could take a whole bunch but if he cant complete them in the approrate time someone else can and get credit for them

if some oen steals early then the credit doesnt go to him or her


just an idea

[Deamiter]

the poached now has a dent in their potential to make history.

It is the great downfall of American science that credit is everything, and progress becomes less and less important. Note the great physicists of the last century. Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi, and Oppenheimer worked together to achieve the atomic bomb. But what is more significant are the thousands of scientists who worked together under these men with no hope, and often no desire for fame. I know two men who worked directly with Fermi at Los Alamos, and the overwhelming idea was to achieve the goal, not to gain fame.

Now, I know that it was a time where the atomic bomb was supposed to end the horrible war, but before WWII, scientists traded information freely looking for answers rather than credit. Even in the first two or three years, German scientists traded nuclear 'secrets' with English and Swedish scientists in the spirit that science should not be the property of any one nation. Now we feel that we MUST be given credit or our work has been done in vain.

Now look at American (and to a lesser extent, European) science today. We have almost weekly reports of "cold fusion achieved," "human cloned," or the recent extremely fraudulant reports of a molecular transistor. Scientists are lead to publish before they have results, and in the case of many, as with the molecular transistor, they spend months of research time trying to lie their way into history.

Now, it makes a certain amount of sense to promise rewards like money or fame to entice laymen into the project (with their currently wasted computing power), but I implore you guys not to go into science looking to make history. Perhaps it is part of human nature, but it was never so harmful to science as now where data is routinely faked for media attention. How much more can we accomplish if we *gasp* work together for a scientific goal rather than working against each other in a race for attention?

No, it should not be treated flippantly. But how much fame will the user who blindly runs George's program really recieve? Perhaps the discovery of a 10 Million digit prime will help a mathematician do something even greater. That's why I work for Prime95. Not to garnish fame for myself, or even for Prime95. Be a part of science to help advance our world, not to help advance yourself! Should we value our human nature above what we might be able to learn through working together?[/b]

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by crash893

please excuse me if some oen has already posted this idea


why not make it so the only person who can get credit for a exponet is the person who has checked it out in the last XX months

that way some one could take a whole bunch but if he cant complete them in the approrate time someone else can and get credit for them

if some oen steals early then the credit doesnt go to him or her


just an idea

This is a good idea ( I believe it has been mentioned), but there is a problem. Some people from different teams trade exponents for various reasons. So while there would be no wrong-doing, it appears to be a poach to the server.

To throw out another idea I brought up a while ago (not sure if it's came up again) was to have the server hold expiring exponents <8M, or whatever barrier we may be attempting to pass. Then George could manually pass them out to people who will get them done quickly. This would at least prevent hold-ups because a slow person got a trailing edge exponent when it expires.