Manic of a panic is geopolitical

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

@CharlesG: You seem to think the WHO pronouncement somehow settles the mini-debate, but it's clear events finally got so ridculously, obviously pandemic level as to force their hand.

Similarly, if you had said this a week ago it would have had a lot more force. It's easy enough to drop hints, but you never said that anything of this sort would happen, nor did you make any counter-claims to my prediction.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

STrump did just ban all airline travel between US and Europe, which is both huge and (IMO) now warranted.

ITYM "Schengen countries".

Closing the border between Italy and Austria is akin to forbidding travel between, say, California and Oregon. I don't see the US closing state borders yet.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

Since when is POTUS tasked with such global-health pronouncements? I know you can't pass up any chance to bash Trump, but this is just silly.

If you'd bothered reading the article I'd linked to, you wouldn't have said this. In particular, it says (my emphasis)

"We have called every day for countries to take urgent and aggressive action. We have rung the alarm bell loud and clear," WHO’s chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Wednesday.

"All countries can still change the course of this pandemic. If countries detect, test, treat, isolate, trace and mobilize their people in the response," he said. "We are deeply concerned by the alarming levels of spread and severity and by the alarming levels of inaction."

Now I suppose it's possible he wasn't specifically referring to the US. But IMO one would have to be either totally delusional, or just plain lying, to deny that right up until the WHO declaration, Il Duce has been doing more trying to wish the problem away, than he has done actually to deal with it.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by xilman

Closing the border between Italy and Austria is akin to forbidding travel between, say, California and Oregon. I don't see the US closing state borders yet.

From things that I have heard, many in Oregon have been wanting to do that for years.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by xilman

Closing the border between Italy and Austria is akin to forbidding travel between, say, California and Oregon. I don't see the US closing state borders yet.

In 1936, the Chief of the LAPD tried to close California's border crossings (including with Oregon) to protect the state from immigrants afflicted with the disease of poverty. This came to be called the Bum Blockade.

For a few months in 1936, the Los Angeles Police Department launched a foreign excursion of sorts -- a "Bum Blockade" on the state’s borders. The LAPD deployed 136 officers to 16 major points of entry on the Arizona, Nevada and Oregon lines, with orders to turn back migrants with "no visible means of support."

The man responsible, Police Chief James Edgar "Two-Gun" Davis, was a former cotton-picker from Texas who came to California in 1911, dirt poor and uneducated. Davis, whose moniker referred to his extraordinary marksmanship with a pistol, liked to say that constitutional rights were of "no benefit to anybody but crooks and criminals."

[Spherical Cow]

And a Europe travel ban- Unbelievable.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/busin...ban/index.html

Again, as an American, apologies to the global community for the COWH (Current Occupant of the White House). We're trying to get this corrected. Honest.

Norm

[kriesel]

Originally Posted by Spherical Cow

And a Europe travel ban- Unbelievable.

We have quite enough seeding of coronavirus in the states from Europe already; 38 states and DC at last count have it. Italy had the good sense to quarantine an area, and adjust to the whole nation later. Chinese early action was denial, not effective action. Iran's response was to sneer at quarantine and other generic measures for combating diseases lacking cures or vaccines as "obsolete". Are you also in favor of express flights from Wuhan or Teheran to an airport near you? Trump is being criticized both for action and for inaction. That may mean he got it about right.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Spherical Cow

And a Europe travel ban- Unbelievable.

ITYM "Schengen travel ban".

[Spherical Cow]

Originally Posted by kriesel

We have quite enough seeding of coronavirus in the states from Europe already; 38 states and DC at last count have it. Italy had the good sense to quarantine an area, and adjust to the whole nation later. Chinese early action was denial, not effective action. Are you also in favor of express flights from Wuhan to an airport near you? Trump is being criticized both for action and for inaction. That may mean he got it about right.

No, being in between "action" and "inaction" doesn't make him right. Nice cliche, but not valid. Action is needed, but not late, limited action. Why ban flights from Europe, but not the UK? Or the Far East, where Japan and South Korea have far more cases than the US? From the latest statistics I've seen, China still has 20,000 active cases that are known about.

As late as Tuesday, he was saying "Stay calm. It will go away." Then he makes a limited, surprise statement about a ban on the EU (but no where else), and then has to clear it up later.

No, this is not a case of being right because people on both sides of opposing viewpoints are unhappy at you. Nice cliche, but that's just not the case. He simply waited too long, and now he's not doing it right.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by xilman

ITYM "Schengen travel ban".

Further on this,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51857462 has a good description and map which shows what is and what is not the Schengen area. Large chunks of western Europe is within Schengen; large chunks of eastern Europe are outside the area.

Included are some interesting (to my mind) reactions from the European diplomatic community and some equally interesting corrections made to the initial statement which were made by US officials. With regard to the latter, I'm applying Hanlon's Razor for the time being.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Spherical Cow

Why ban flights from Europe, but not the UK?

ITYM "from Schengen but not the rest of Europe?"

My take is that Italy is (apparently) in deep and that the Schengen area (until a few days ago) allowed free movement from that country without any border controls.

OTOH, travel between non-Schengen and Schengen places (such as between LGW and SPC with which I have had frequent and recent personal experience) amounts to passport checks on arrival. For all practical purposes such as infection control those checks are essentially useless.