Tomb of debate

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

Perhaps now is the time to leave it here. It seemed my initial reason for the thread was about the tone of debate on the forum as a whole. While this attracted some adverse discussion, I think there was nonetheless a worthwhile discussion. What's more I genuinely feel even in the few weeks that have passed that the tone of debate has improved massively. Take 'the formula' thread for example!

Agreed. We've been able to discuss silly/crazy things without ridicule, and I think that's good.

Of course (1) no one is forced to participate and (2) no one is telling the author that the ideas are valid, and I think that this is appropriate.

Originally Posted by xilman

Perhaps so. The ridicule has become markedly more subtle, but just as barbed and just as present. In my opinion, of course.

I think it's much better that way, honestly. For example, those of us who have been around know what it means when a thread is moved to misc. math, but the thread author isn't instantly offended.

Originally Posted by lukerichards

It seems however that hardly anyone is with me on the thread renaming and even more issues seem to be coming out of a much more detailed discussion, so I'll pick up my two cents and leave it there.

I've accepted this as part of the forum's culture. It's really not used in a meanspirited way, though it is often used to lightly poke fun at people. Unfortunately new users do take it kind of hard sometimes, so we should be careful when renaming their threads, but fundamentally I don't have a problem with the practice.

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

I've accepted this as part of the forum's culture. It's really not used in a meanspirited way, though it is often used to lightly poke fun at people. Unfortunately new users do take it kind of hard sometimes, so we should be careful when renaming their threads, but fundamentally I don't have a problem with the practice.

Agreed. In 90% of the cases it's a bit of harmless fun.

When it happened to my ECM thread I was left wondering if that was harmless fun, clarifying the title or a bit of a jibe. Was no skin of my nose and you'll notice I made no fuss about it at the time, because I didn't really care. The reason I've raised it is because I've seen it happen since to others and on occasion it does not sit right with me.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

[...]
Might be worth mods considering whether the thread could or should be locked. It seems to me that all who wish to say their piece have done so.

I thought your whole thread was very worthwhile and would like to thank you for raising the issues. It has generated valuable discussion which is not necessarily finished, so I hope this thread stays open. There's no particular need to lock it in my opinion.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

I think it's much better that way, honestly. For example, those of us who have been around know what it means when a thread is moved to misc. math, but the thread author isn't instantly offended.

The OP of such threads very often need to learn more about the subject on which they make great claims. Discovering how and when they are being ridiculed is also a valuable learning experience in that they may then go on to learn to be more circumspect and less arrogant in future.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by xilman

The OP of such threads very often need to learn more about the subject on which they make great claims. Discovering how and when they are being ridiculed is also a valuable learning experience in that they may then go on to learn to be more circumspect and less arrogant in future.

Absolutely, but hitting them in the face with it all at once is hard, and doing it with the bluntness that some forum members have been known for would be too much. Instead our tradition had been to move to misc. math and let any members with the stomach discuss with them, and that has worked well. Some have learned, most have not, but clutter is kept to a minimum and only minimal resources are wasted. (Once the thread is on misc. math, anyone who chooses to engage can hardly complain that their time is wasted posting their, the forum itself is warning enough that posting is for entertainment only.)

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by xilman

As I've observed on MF in the past, offen[cs]e is in the mind of the offended.

+1