Language Evolution, it's Fantastic, it's Incredible

[kladner]

Originally Posted by a1call

I think things started changing in the 60s in regards to "making love".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_love,_not_war

The hippy term I remember for sex, from the late sixties, was "balling." Of course, that has low-down physical connotations, as compared to "Making Love."

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by a1call

Pendar means thinking, the exact same meaning as ponder after some supposed 6k years. Please see the attached Google translate screen shot.

It's interesting that you think that, since 600 years ago "ponder" meant "appraise", which is why it's related to the Latin word ponderare for weighing. There isn't a close relative in German since it's not a native English word coming up from its Germanic roots, but rather a borrowing from Old French which was a derivative of (Vulgar) Latin.

Originally Posted by a1call

What is the closest Germanic, German, French, Greek, Latin equivalent?

Well, the closest (six) Persian equivalents to "ponder" according to this dictionary are
غور کردن، تعمق کردن، ژرف اندیشی کردن، به فکر فرورفتن، ژرف نگری کردن، سگالیدن
which doesn't seem to even include your word "پندار" for which Google translate provides the following four glosses: opinion, notion, thought, supposition.

Originally Posted by a1call

As for brethren brother, both Persian and German use en/an as a plural maker. It is interesting that English has kept the brethren plural from the Indo-Aryan root while German has not. Just an indication that English-Persian language link is perhaps not thorough its supposed Germanic cousins.

English has lost almost all of the Germanic strong plurals but there are a few like brethren that remain, mostly as historical artifacts (the usual plural is brothers, but brethren exists for specialized uses).

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

English has lost almost all of the Germanic strong plurals but there are a few like brethren that remain, mostly as historical artifacts (the usual plural is brothers, but brethren exists for specialized uses).

Personally I find it quite interesting that the French have their language police to ensure no foreigners' words enter their language, and yet the Germans are more than happy to produce words which are forty or more letters long.

The word "nominal" has always amused me. To an engineer it means "within acceptable parameters". To a "normal" it means "meaningless".

[kladner]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Personally I find it quite interesting that the French have their language police to ensure no foreigners' words enter their language, and yet the Germans are more than happy to produce words which are forty or more letters long.

The word "nominal" has always amused me. To an engineer it means "within acceptable parameters". To a "normal" it means "meaningless".

A French teacher in my high school referred, though perhaps with disdain, to "le weekend", et peut etre, "le picnic".

[Dubslow]

"Weekend" has gained significant traction in France despite the best efforts of language "purists" everywhere. I think the main reason is simply because it's half as many syllables as the native equivalent, "le fin de la semaine". It seems to me that even just as phonology goes, the word "weekend" is more aesthetic than most, comprising of some of the easiest sounds for humans to produce. Perhaps if "fin du semaine" (or other equally short equivalent, with the better rhythm) was grammatically correct, it would have retained better "market share" against the English invader.

[a1call]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Well, the closest (six) Persian equivalents to "ponder" according to this dictionary are
غور کردن، تعمق کردن، ژرف اندیشی کردن، به فکر فرورفتن، ژرف نگری کردن، سگالیدن
which doesn't seem to even include your word "پندار" for which Google translate provides the following four glosses: opinion, notion, thought, supposition.

Please don't try to teach a Persian how to speak Persian. I don't know what your sources are but the following are some facts:

Pendar in Persian means "to think" or "thinking"

Google translate translates Persian fonts typed pendar as thinking as shown in my screen shot and not opinion or notion.

Persian roots of the word is very easy to trace since it was used as the main teachings of Zoroaster as "goftare nik, pendsre nik, raftare nik" which precisely translate as "good/nice saying, nice thinking, nice doing".

Ponder in its English form is closer to Persian pendar than its supposed French root of to think which is pronounced as ponse which is the whole point of my ( by now repeated at least 3 times) argument.

All those Persian fonts you have copied and pasted from which ever source mean to think (except the last phrase, which I have never heard before).

As for brothers/brethren, it was not very long ago when I was thought by my English teacher that saying "brothers", was as wrong as saying, "womans" or "childs", but language evolves. "Brothers" is now more proper than spelling night as nite.

[a1call]

My English teacher Mr Collier, taught me better than spelling "taught" as "thought", but auto-correct and swipe keyboards are now current. I wonder how long will it be before the two words are interchangeable.

[a1call]

Is pronouncing "idea" "idear", "Russia" "Russier" a new British/Australian tend or am I just too ignorant?

Somehow I don't recall hearing any such pronunciations a few decades ago.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by a1call

Is pronouncing "idea" "idear", "Russia" "Russier" a new British/Australian tend or am I just too ignorant?

Somehow I don't recall hearing any such pronunciations a few decades ago.

It has been around a while. You can see some of it going on in "The King's Speech". It depends on the region. It is also part of the 'trans-atlantic' accent.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by chalsall

As a serious dyslexic, the English word "right" has always driven me a bit bat-shit crazy!

Sometimes it means "correct". Sometimes it means the opposite of "left", or "three o'clock". Sometimes it means "immediately". And sometimes even the context doesn't help with the parsing! [snip]

It also is a verb, meaning to restore things to their proper state, as in "to right a wrong," "to right a ship," etc.

The mother of all "turn" jokes I've heard, goes something like this:

"You turn right here."

(car screeeeches through a U-turn)

"No, go back!"

(car screeeeches through another U-turn, goes back to before turn, screeeeches through another U-turn to restore previous orientation)

I meant, "You turn right here."

(car screeeeches through a hard right)

"No, go back!"

(car screeeeches through another U-turn, goes back, screeeeches through another U-turn to restore previous orientation).

I meant, "You turn left, right here."


Variants of the "turn" joke include phrases like, "No, your other left!" and "No, your other right!"


One word with multiple meanings and multiple etymologies is shrub. One meaning, from the Arabic for "to drink," is a type of beverage. Another meaning, from Middle English, (possibly) via Norwegian or Danish, means a small bush (brushy or woody plant). Yet another meaning, possibly by analogy to the plant meaning, is "an inferior or contemptible person."


The older usage of "make love" is often (but not always) "make love to" while the newer is often (but not always) "make love with."


One of the neatest indirect allusions to sex I have heard was in a some TV presentation set in the nineteenth century US. The scene was a daytime outdoor social gathering. One of the characters remarked, "There's two missing that shouldn't be."

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

It also is a verb, meaning to restore things to their proper state, as in "to right a wrong," "to right a ship," etc.

My ex-wife and I used to have arguments about the correct use of "learned" vs. "learnt".

One day she said "I'm coming around to learnt

"Why," I asked, "because you've been reading the Economist?

"No", she answered, grinning. "Burnt.