Language Evolution, it's Fantastic, it's Incredible

[a1call]

Being a constant does not mean it does not have a definition.
It was known to be a constant in time of Einstein as well, but somehow the physisis of his time did not think of defining a metre in terms of speed as a function of length in metres.
BTW I think this argument is becoming circular. One of us has to stop, so I will.

[Dubslow]

Back on topic, a1call if you find language change interesting, I suggest that you spend some time on Wikipedia reading about the Indo-European language family and its evolution.

Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language

As Proto-Indo-Europeans became isolated from each other through the Indo-European migrations, dialects of the Proto-Indo-European language spoken by the various groups underwent the Indo-European sound laws divergence, and along with shifts in morphology, they slowly but eventually transformed into the known ancient Indo-European languages. From there, further linguistic divergence lead to the evolution of their current descendants, the modern Indo-European languages. Today, the most widely-spoken descendant languages, or daughter languages, of PIE are Spanish, English, Hindustani (Hindi and Urdu), Portuguese, Bengali, Russian, Punjabi, German, Persian, French, Italian and Marathi. Hundreds of other living descendant languages of PIE range from languages as diverse as Albanian (gjuha shqipe), Kurdish (کوردی), Nepali (खस भाषा), Tsakonian (τσακώνικα), Ukrainian (українська мова), to Yiddish (יידיש).

Although it's not "special" linguistically speaking, it is of course the language family I can most relate to, seeing as my native (and only) language is not only one of its descendants, but also perhaps its descendant with the greatest variety of vocabulary pulled in from multiple of its branches. For instance, the English word "heart" is a direct cognate with the Greek word kardia, with the same meaning, or the modern Russian "serdtse" with the same meaning, all evolved from PIE *ker/*krd-, with some sound shifts. By the same sound shifts we also have Spanish/French ciento/cent, English hund(red), and Russian sto all being direct cognates with the same meaning, from the PIE *kymtm, or even English "what" vs Spanish/Italian/French/Latin que/che/que/quod. And that's to say nothing of the other branches of PIE, such as Celtic, Indic-and-Persian, and some others as well. (For instance, the English word "friend" is a direct cognate with the Hindi word/name "Priya", by the same sound shift as Spanish padre/pescado vs English father/fish.)

Of course, from a point of view of natural selection, the PIE peoples were apparently something special, as their descendants seem to account for the most expansive conquerors on the planet -- Greek empire, Roman empire, British empire, Russian empire, American not-quite-an-empire (Mongol empire is the biggest counter example I can think of) -- and that's not even counting the prehistoric expansion, from a one small portion of the world (near the Black and Caspian seas) to more-or-less conquer the European mainland, Persia, half or more of India, etc, wiping out most of the indigenous languages in the process. (In Europe, the primary exceptions to the nearly-total linguistic conquest are Basque/Euskara, which somehow managed to survive both Celtic and post-Roman invaders, and Hungarian/Finnish/Estonian, being the major remaining languages of the Uralic group that was otherwise generally subjugated by PIE speakers.) How many unrelated languages have speakers of PIE-or-its-descendants collectively wiped out, languages like, e.g., Etruscan or Mahican? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

[Dubslow]

Originally Posted by a1call

Being a constant does not mean it does not have a definition.
It was known to be a constant in time of Einstein as well, but somehow the physisis of his time did not think of defining a metre in terms of speed as a function of length in metres.

Being constant very definitely means that it does not have a definition. That's what the word "constant" means. The speed of light was constant before the meter was redefined, and it is constant after the meter was redefined.

The length of a meter is defined by the speed of light. The speed of light is not defined in terms of anything, not the meter, not the mile, not anything. It is merely measured in labs.

[a1call]

Good less change topic then.
I think it is quite obvious that I don't necessarily follow the current viewes held true by the masses and if I happen to notice a discrepancy, I will point it out even though I know that the majority will disagree.
You failed to mention the Persian empire was at its widest spanning from China to Mediterranean sea.

As for the language roots, the linguists maintain that English is a offshoot of German/Ic languages. Which were branched off of Indo-European languages.
However, as someone who is fluent in Persian, this does not compute for me. I can give you many examples but will suffice to one. The word star is pronounced as shtar in German but as Setareh in Persian. I can give you many such examples of old Persian and English words which are closer together than they are to their German equivalent. It does not make sense for English to have branched off Germanic when it has more in common with Persian than German.

[rudy235]

I always find it amusing when someone says: "I have received literally thousands of letters".

I guess they believe that literally means "as in literature" or in, other words, figuratively.

Another buzz word is "awesome". It used to mean causing fright or awe. More or less like "awful"

[a1call]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvlWZ3mODJA

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by a1call

As for the language roots, the linguists maintain that English is a offshoot of German/Ic languages. Which were branched off of Indo-European languages.

Yes, it is non-controversial that Indo-European split into Indo-Iranian (which now includes Persian) and Germanic (which now includes English).

Originally Posted by a1call

I can give you many examples but I suffice to one. The word star is pronounced as shtar in German but as Setareh in Persian. I can give you many such examples of old Persian and English words which are closer together than they are to their German equivalent. It does not make sense for English to have branched off Germanic when it has more in common with Persian than German.

Hmm, there are a number of misconceptions to unpack here.

First, German is no closer to Germanic than English -- don't let the name fool you, it's just a label.

Second, linguistics is not about words being "close together" but rather about regular correspondences. See for example
https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/IE_Main5_Grimm.html
http://old-engli.sh/trivia.php?ID=VernersLaw
http://grzegorj.interiowo.pl/lingwen/glottal.html

Third, it's easy to cherry-pick examples; if you really want to make a case you should use an established list like Swadesh:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appen..._Swadesh_lists

[Dubslow]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Hmm, there are a number of misconceptions to unpack here.

First, German is no closer to Germanic than English -- don't let the name fool you, it's just a label.

Second, linguistics is not about words being "close together" but rather about regular correspondences. See for example
https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/IE_Main5_Grimm.html
http://old-engli.sh/trivia.php?ID=VernersLaw
http://grzegorj.interiowo.pl/lingwen/glottal.html

And of course that doesn't include the long written history of the evolution of English, from its proto-stage as one dialect among many along the coast of the North Sea, to being insular, to being invaded by Danes, to being invaded by French, to being invaded by more French and more Vikings etc, the great grammar simplification, the Great Vowel Shift, through to its current state.

My only conclusion is that a1call is simply the most dedicated, varied and imaginative troll on this forum. (The definition of the meter is circular? That's some choice troll material right there.)

[a1call]

I just noticed CGH's post. This is not related to that but something I remembered. Another thing that catches your ears when listening to OTR is use of words like difficulter.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/difficulter

It is not in any of the Webster dictionaries but I have heard it repeatedly from the same person in the same commercial, I think in "Signal Gasoline" commercials.

[a1call]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Yes, it is non-controversial that Indo-European split into Indo-Iranian (which now includes Persian) and Germanic (which now includes English).



Hmm, there are a number of misconceptions to unpack here.

First, German is no closer to Germanic than English -- don't let the name fool you, it's just a label.

Second, linguistics is not about words being "close together" but rather about regular correspondences. See for example
https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/IE_Main5_Grimm.html
http://old-engli.sh/trivia.php?ID=VernersLaw
http://grzegorj.interiowo.pl/lingwen/glottal.html

Third, it's easy to cherry-pick examples; if you really want to make a case you should use an established list like Swadesh:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appen..._Swadesh_lists

Admittedly it is cherry picking, but there are a lot of cherries to pick from.
Take another basic root word such as brethren and compare it to German Brüder vs Persian Baradaran. I know Germanic is not German but the point is it does not add up for English to sound closer to a supposed more distant/earlier branch such as Persian for so many words than a closer by vicinity and supposed linguistic branch such as German.

Some more examples:
Daughter dokhtar
Ponder pendar
Nice nik
Door dar
Eye brow abru

[science_man_88]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ni...7CTZES3KXFnwm0