Electrical Service Rates

[DrobinsonPE]

Originally Posted by kriesel

Power lost in distribution before that meter is p=i² Rline, higher than linear with end user demand.

I just saw this tonight. Thanks for the nightmares. Somehow many many years ago that equation was so much more complicated on the PE exam. If I remember correctly, there was phase matching, vector multiplication, reluctance, capacitance, and resistance thrown in there as well. I never did take the time to fully figure out power transmission calculations with pencil, paper, and a non-programmable calculator. Luckily, I knew enough about other topics and do not practice in power transmission.

Sorry to hear that you also need to pull the plug on some of your lower productive machines. Almost 15% increase in one year is is a tough break. Although, come to think of it PG&E's tier 2 was only $0.306 this time last year and $0.36 this year. At least there is not much forest left in California for PG&E to burn down so fingers crossed that they can slow down increasing my rates in the future.

[kriesel]

Originally Posted by DrobinsonPE

Thanks for the nightmares. Somehow many many years ago that equation was so much more complicated on the PE exam. If I remember correctly, there was phase matching, vector multiplication, reluctance, capacitance, and resistance thrown in there as well.

Sure. But what matters for power dissipation is instantaneous current squared times resistive (real) component of impedance. Reactance or capacitance are energy storage, not dissipation into heat. Resistive voltage is always in phase with current, by definition.
Good luck with the 2023 utility rates. And the not burning down your neighborhood.

[VBCurtis]

Originally Posted by kriesel

Sure. But what matters for power dissipation is instantaneous current [...].

And how are you finding instantaneous current without all the things you hand-waved away?

[firejuggler]

Just got a bill for my 2 month use.


From 18/11/2021 to 27/01/2022

Consomption             2404kW                               
            
Subscription             18,46 €
Use                     234,15 €                               
Local Taxes              81,07 €                               
VAT :                    63,63 €                               
        
Total :             397,31 €

so a real rate of 0.1652 € by kW

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by firejuggler

Just got a bill for my 2 month use.
<snip>
so a real rate of 0.1652 € by kW

If "Use" is the cost of the juice itself, that's fairly cheap - 0.0974 Euro, or just over 11 cents per kwh.

Local taxes would be almost 35%, and local taxes plus VAT almost 62% the cost of the juice itself.

Even with the grand total being under 19 cents per kwh, here in the good ol' USA peoples' heads would be exploding over those tax figures

[firejuggler]

I found an older bill, for the same period, from 2019


23/11/2018-24/01/2019

Consomption         1129kW

Subscrition          14.74€
Use                    100.26€
Local Taxes             38.92€
VAT                     28.25€

Total                182.17€

The juice itself was at 0.0888 € by kW
But the 'average' cost was at 0.1613 € by kW
A minor raise in price over a few year

[storm5510]

I received my statement for mid-January to mid-February. $175.96 with 1,218 kWh consumed. I was expecting > $200 with all the cold weather the last month. I consider myself fortunate.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by storm5510

I received my statement for mid-January to mid-February. $175.96 with 1,218 kWh consumed.

I just received our bill... $285.45 BBD ($141.37 USD) for 455 kWh. The breakdown:

Connection: $14.00 BBD.
1st Block (150 kWh) @ $0.15 per kWh: $22.50.
2nd Block (305 kWh) @ $0.176 per kWh: $53.68.
Fuel Adjustment (455 kWh) @ $0.335732 per kWh: $152.76.
Subtotal: $242.94.
VAT @ 17.5%: $42.51.

So... $0.31 USD per kWh. There's a reason I prefer to use The Cloud...

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by chalsall

<snip>
1st Block (150 kWh) @ $0.15 per kWh: $22.50.
2nd Block (305 kWh) @ $0.176 per kWh: $53.68.
Fuel Adjustment (455 kWh) @ $0.335732 per kWh: $152.76.
<snip>

The "fuel adjustment" is almost twice the second block (higher) rate for the juice itself. That's one heck of an "adjustment!"

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by chalsall

I just received our bill... $285.45 BBD ($141.37 USD) for 455 kWh. The breakdown:

Connection: $14.00 BBD.
1st Block (150 kWh) @ $0.15 per kWh: $22.50.
2nd Block (305 kWh) @ $0.176 per kWh: $53.68.
Fuel Adjustment (455 kWh) @ $0.335732 per kWh: $152.76.
Subtotal: $242.94.
VAT @ 17.5%: $42.51.

So... $0.31 USD per kWh. There's a reason I prefer to use The Cloud...

The Cloud?

I did not post the image with the breakdown this time around. I was politely told I should not have included the meter number on the last one. The meter I have, no one needs to come around and read it every month. It must transmit it data frequently. Beyond this, I do not know. Living in an apartment complex, none of the other meters I can see look like mine. I recall seeing a lot of analog (five-dial), types. I thought all those went out with Bush 41.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by storm5510

The Cloud?

Somebody else's computer sucking the juice to crunch the numbers...

<snip>
The meter I have, no one needs to come around and read it every month. It must transmit it data frequently. Beyond this, I do not know. Living in an apartment complex, none of the other meters I can see look like mine. I recall seeing a lot of analog (five-dial), types. I thought all those went out with Bush 41.

Yes, back in those ancient times, Automatic Meter Reading (AMR) or "drive-by" meter reading largely replaced the "meter readers" who used to go house to house to read electric, water, and gas meters.

But now, your meter reading is going online! Advanced Metering Infrastructure

Utilities relying on older "drive-by" Automatic Meter Reading (AMR) are upgrading to next-generation "smart grid" Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI) systems providing enhanced networked communications and control.

I can't imagine anything possibly going wrong...