mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Fun Stuff > Puzzles

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2016-10-18, 16:32   #23
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

20C016 Posts
Default

using straight addition we can make all of 1,3,6,10,15 aka the triangular numbers up to 15 noting that the squares are sums of odd numbers we can get the first 3 squares plus 0,2,4,or 6 ( some of these overlap the triangular numbers of course) so we can produce 1,4,9,3,6,11,5,8,13,7,10,15 all through addition only.we can't subtract 4 and 5 both at the same time since (4+5)>(1+2+3) if we form fractions ( using parentheses and division) then we know certain arrangements don't turn out integers so those combinations are out including things like (1+3+5)/(2+4) in fact any sum on the top need be even I think as even/odd odd/odd and even/even are possible in theory but I think any odd/odd ones don't turn out integer in this case. (1+2+3+4)/5 =2 works though. there are limits on each operation but I haven't really thought much deeper. never mind I forgot the order restriction. there's still the limits to consider though.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2016-10-18 at 16:33
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 17:02   #24
VBCurtis
 
VBCurtis's Avatar
 
"Curtis"
Feb 2005
Riverside, CA

12FD16 Posts
Default

One more cheater:
39 = 5 * 4! / 3 - 2 + 1
VBCurtis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 17:02   #25
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

10,753 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KangJ View Post
1=5/(4*3/2-1), 1=(5-4+3)/2-1
...
49=5*(4*3-2*1)

I think 39 is only the impossible number without cheating
I feel it unfair that the question excludes 0 from the list to be created. Creating negative numbers is, of course, trivial, given an expression for the corresponding positive. In a spirit of fairness, I offer 0 = (5-4-3+2)*1 as a representative of several others.

Now that everyone has had their fun, I'm tempted to write a Perl script which evaluates all possible binary trees of the form (tree operator tree) where the terminal nodes are taken from the set {5,4,3,2,1} and operator from the set {+, -, *, /} subject to the constraint that the resulting expression has its leaves in descending order.

Clearly, the maximum value which can be created without cheating is 120, the smallest is -120; some values are not integers, one of which is 5/(4*3*2*1).

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2016-10-18 at 17:02
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 17:58   #26
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26·131 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Clearly, the maximum value which can be created without cheating is 120, the smallest is -120; some values are not integers, one of which is 5/(4*3*2*1).
nope 121= 5*4*3*2+1 = 120+1

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2016-10-18 at 17:58
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 18:04   #27
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

10,753 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by science_man_88 View Post
nope 121= 5*4*3*2+1 = 120+1
Well spotted!

xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 18:16   #28
R. Gerbicz
 
R. Gerbicz's Avatar
 
"Robert Gerbicz"
Oct 2005
Hungary

5CC16 Posts
Default

I've found all possible integers with a simple c code (note that here I have not allowed unary operations), as you can see you really can't reach 39.
(in some lines you can delete some parentheses to get the same number)
Code:
-31=5-(4*(3*(2+1)))
-25=5*(4-(3*(2+1)))
-23=5-(4*(3*2+1))
-21=(5-(4*3))*(2+1)
-20=5-(4*(3*2)+1)
-19=5-(4*(3+2+1))
-18=5-(4*(3*2)-1)
-16=5-((4+3)*(2+1))
-15=5-(4*(3+2*1))
-14=5-(4*(3+2)-1)
-13=(5-(4*3))*2+1
-11=5-(4*(3+2-1))
-10=5*(4-(3+2+1))
-9=5-((4+3)*(2*1))
-8=5-(4+3*(2+1))
-7=5-(4*(3*(2-1)))
-6=5-(4+3*2+1)
-5=5-(4+3+2+1)
-4=5-(4+3+2*1)
-3=5-(4+3+2-1)
-2=5-(4+3*(2-1))
-1=5/(4-(3*(2+1)))
0=5*(4*(3-(2+1)))
1=5-(4+3-(2+1))
2=5-(4-(3/(2+1)))
3=5+4-(3+2+1)
4=5-(4/(3+2-1))
5=5+4*(3-(2+1))
6=5+4/(3+2-1)
7=5-(4-(3+2+1))
8=5+4-(3/(2+1))
9=5+4+3-(2+1)
10=5-(4-(3*(2+1)))
11=5+4+3-(2-1)
12=5+4+3*(2-1)
13=5+4+3+2-1
14=5+4+3+2*1
15=5+4+3+2+1
16=5+4+3*2+1
17=5+4*(3*(2-1))
18=5+4+3*(2+1)
19=5+(4+3)*(2*1)
20=5*(4+3-(2+1))
21=5+4*(3+2-1)
22=5*4+3-(2-1)
23=5*4+3*(2-1)
24=5+4*(3+2)-1
25=5*(4+3/(2+1))
26=5+(4+3)*(2+1)
27=(5+4)*(3*(2-1))
28=5+4*(3*2)-1
29=5+4*(3+2+1)
30=5*(4+3-(2-1))
31=5*(4*(3/2))+1
32=5*(4+3)-(2+1)
33=5+4*(3*2+1)
34=5*(4+3)-(2-1)
35=5*(4+3*(2-1))
36=(5+4)*(3+2-1)
37=5*(4+3)+2*1
38=5*(4+3)+2+1
40=5*(4+3+2-1)
41=5+4*(3*(2+1))
44=5*(4+3+2)-1
45=5*(4+3+2*1)
46=(5*4+3)*(2*1)
47=(5*4+3)*2+1
49=5*(4+3*2)-1
50=5*(4+3+2+1)
51=(5+4*3)*(2+1)
53=(5+4)*(3*2)-1
54=(5+4)*(3+2+1)
55=5*(4+3*2+1)
57=5*(4*3)-(2+1)
58=5*(4*3)-(2*1)
59=5*(4*3)-(2-1)
60=5*(4*(3*(2-1)))
61=5*(4*3)+2-1
62=5*(4*3)+2*1
63=(5+4)*(3*2+1)
65=5*(4+3*(2+1))
69=(5*4+3)*(2+1)
70=5*((4+3)*(2*1))
71=5*((4+3)*2)+1
75=5*(4*3+2+1)
80=5*(4*(3+2-1))
81=(5+4)*(3*(2+1))
95=5*(4*(3+2)-1)
99=5*(4*(3+2))-1
100=5*(4*(3+2*1))
101=5*(4*(3+2))+1
105=5*((4+3)*(2+1))
115=5*(4*(3*2)-1)
119=5*(4*(3*2))-1
120=5*(4*(3+2+1))
121=5*(4*(3*2))+1
125=5*(4*(3*2)+1)
140=5*(4*(3*2+1))
180=5*(4*(3*(2+1)))

Last fiddled with by R. Gerbicz on 2016-10-18 at 18:24 Reason: delete that lots of ;
R. Gerbicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 18:39   #29
Batalov
 
Batalov's Avatar
 
"Serge"
Mar 2008
Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2

36·13 Posts
Default

I can represent a (reasonably) large prime with these digits and only one sign symbol :-)
5432 + 1 = 27327525884414205519790497974303154461449992065060438017
Batalov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 18:47   #30
rogue
 
rogue's Avatar
 
"Mark"
Apr 2003
Between here and the

11×577 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Gerbicz View Post
I've found all possible integers with a simple c code (note that here I have not allowed unary operations), as you can see you really can't reach 39.
(in some lines you can delete some parentheses to get the same number)
Now you just need to do it with the three 6's puzzle...
rogue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 19:01   #31
R. Gerbicz
 
R. Gerbicz's Avatar
 
"Robert Gerbicz"
Oct 2005
Hungary

148410 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
Now you just need to do it with the three 6's puzzle...
Not following every topics, what/where is that puzzle?
R. Gerbicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 19:35   #32
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101Γ—103 Posts

2·3·7·233 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KangJ View Post
39=54/3+21
I think 39 is only the impossible number without cheating
I think that if you read the rules carefully, you have not cheated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrw1 View Post
Another way to get 39 with bending another rule:
39 = 5 X ( (3 X 2) + 1) + 4
That is rule breaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsquared View Post
Another cheat :
39 = (5 * (4 + 3) + 2 + 1)++
Quote:
Originally Posted by VBCurtis View Post
One more cheater:
39 = 5 * 4! / 3 - 2 + 1
Since the rules (as provided in the original link calls 5, 4, 3, 2, & 1 "digits" and not numbers, I think KangJ is ok.
Similarly:
39 = -5 + 43 + 2 - 1
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-10-18, 20:23   #33
rogue
 
rogue's Avatar
 
"Mark"
Apr 2003
Between here and the

11×577 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Gerbicz View Post
Not following every topics, what/where is that puzzle?
Maybe that was wrong. I'm trying to find it. Possibly it was six sixes not three sixes. I'm sure that someone else here will remember.

Last fiddled with by rogue on 2016-10-18 at 20:24
rogue is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WakeOnLan (There must be someone who knows the answer to this.) wildrabbitt Linux 26 2020-05-09 19:09
If you choose an answer at random Uncwilly Lounge 12 2018-02-14 15:00
mfakto is not running.. please give me a answer diablo5147 GPU Computing 1 2013-12-09 01:47
Manual reservation system obsolete? (Answer: no) thommy Prime Sierpinski Project 5 2006-02-21 16:36
please answer flasholinos Lone Mersenne Hunters 2 2003-06-17 19:08

All times are UTC. The time now is 03:21.


Sat Jul 17 03:21:38 UTC 2021 up 50 days, 1:08, 1 user, load averages: 1.70, 1.53, 1.42

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.