Stockfish-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 8 discussion

MooMoo2 · 2016-10-17, 03:24

The most popular move on the move 7 discussion thread was ...e5. Stockfish played 8. Bg5, and the FEN is:
r1bqkb1r/pp3ppp/2np1n2/1N2p1B1/4P3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 1 8

Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5

Depth: 51 ply. Nodes searched: 691,518,869,565 (~692 G)

henryzz · 2016-10-17, 22:06

Personally I like 8...a6. His only move is 9.Na3 and we can follow up that with 9...b5. He will then have to move a knight again due to the possibility of 10...b4. One database I am using has >6000 games for a6 but 10 for other moves.
The database also likes 9...b5. Then it has two fairly even options: 10.Nd5 and 10.Bxf6.
It appears that after 10.Bxf6 white rarely does 10...Qxf6 as it loses a tempo due to 11.Nd5. The alternative is 10...gxf6 which messes up the pawn structure and doesn't leave a great place to castle.
After 10.Nd5 black usually does 10...Be7 in order to attempt to keep the pawn structure in place. Most often the game then continues 11.Bxf6 Bxf6, however, it is possible for it to go 11.Nxe7 Nxe7 12.Bxf6 gxf6. Not sure why 11.Nxe7 doesn't happen more.

Other possibilities: Be7, h6. Can't really say either are special

For those interested the I am currently using the beta version of Tarrasch Chess Gui v3 with the kingbase lite database. At somepoint I will upgrade to the larger millionbase database. It doesn't run out after 10 moves each like chesstempo

gd_barnes · 2016-10-18, 07:05

I also like a6 followed up by b5 to mess around with white's knights and create plenty of space for us. The possibility of a slightly messed up pawn structure for us is not a problem because the pawns are not isolated. Also with an open g-column and two pawns on the f-column black does not necessarily need to castle.

henryzz · 2016-10-18, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

I also like a6 followed up by b5 to mess around with white's knights and create plenty of space for us. The possibility of a slightly messed up pawn structure for us is not a problem because the pawns are not isolated. Also with an open g-column and two pawns on the f-column black does not necessarily need to castle.

The h pawn would be isolated.

WMHalsdorf · 2016-10-18, 20:37

8...a6 is a good move here. The follow up with b5 would be a waste of a tempo in my opion since the knight on a3 would most likly goto c4 anyway.

gd_barnes · 2016-10-19, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryzz

The h pawn would be isolated.

I should have said that we would have no doubled and isolated pawns like black had last game.

gd_barnes · 2016-10-19, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMHalsdorf

8...a6 is a good move here. The follow up with b5 would be a waste of a tempo in my opion since the knight on a3 would most likly goto c4 anyway.

The point of us moving to b5 would be to prevent Nc4. How is b5 a waste of tempo on our part? It is the most common move in most databases in that position.

henryzz · 2016-10-19, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

The point of us moving to b5 would be to prevent Nc4. How is b5 a waste of tempo on our part? It is the most common move in most databases in that position.

Part of why I like b5 is that it forces white to make move. Without he is free to do whatever he chooses.
I would feel very foolish ignoring so many chess masters in the databases.
@WMHalsdorf What would you suggest instead?

WMHalsdorf · 2016-10-19, 15:09

The best response to b5 is Nd5 which can be played against any number of moves we play.

gd_barnes · 2016-10-20, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMHalsdorf

The best response to b5 is Nd5 which can be played against any number of moves we play.

That does not answer the question that he asked. What move would you propose that we make in response to 8...a6 9. Na3?

WMHalsdorf · 2016-10-20, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

That does not answer the question that he asked. What move would you propose that we make in response to 8...a6 9. Na3?

At this point I'm leaning towards Be7 which frees our knight on f6 to move and reduces the effect of white's bishop on g5 to disrupt our kingside.

2016-10-17, 03:24	#1
MooMoo2 Aug 2010 2×3×103 Posts	Stockfish-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 8 discussion The most popular move on the move 7 discussion thread was ...e5. Stockfish played 8. Bg5, and the FEN is: r1bqkb1r/pp3ppp/2np1n2/1N2p1B1/4P3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 1 8 Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 Depth: 51 ply. Nodes searched: 691,518,869,565 (~692 G) Attached Thumbnails Last fiddled with by MooMoo2 on 2016-10-17 at 03:24

2016-10-18, 07:05	#3
gd_barnes May 2007 Kansas; USA 10345₁₀ Posts	I also like a6 followed up by b5 to mess around with white's knights and create plenty of space for us. The possibility of a slightly messed up pawn structure for us is not a problem because the pawns are not isolated. Also with an open g-column and two pawns on the f-column black does not necessarily need to castle. Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2016-10-18 at 07:06

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2016-10-17, 22:06	#2
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Cambridge (GMT/BST) 2·29·101 Posts	Personally I like 8...a6. His only move is 9.Na3 and we can follow up that with 9...b5. He will then have to move a knight again due to the possibility of 10...b4. One database I am using has >6000 games for a6 but 10 for other moves. The database also likes 9...b5. Then it has two fairly even options: 10.Nd5 and 10.Bxf6. It appears that after 10.Bxf6 white rarely does 10...Qxf6 as it loses a tempo due to 11.Nd5. The alternative is 10...gxf6 which messes up the pawn structure and doesn't leave a great place to castle. After 10.Nd5 black usually does 10...Be7 in order to attempt to keep the pawn structure in place. Most often the game then continues 11.Bxf6 Bxf6, however, it is possible for it to go 11.Nxe7 Nxe7 12.Bxf6 gxf6. Not sure why 11.Nxe7 doesn't happen more. Other possibilities: Be7, h6. Can't really say either are special For those interested the I am currently using the beta version of Tarrasch Chess Gui v3 with the kingbase lite database. At somepoint I will upgrade to the larger millionbase database. It doesn't run out after 10 moves each like chesstempo

2016-10-18, 20:37	#5
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 1000000001₂ Posts	8...a6 is a good move here. The follow up with b5 would be a waste of a tempo in my opion since the knight on a3 would most likly goto c4 anyway.

2016-10-19, 15:09	#9
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 201₁₆ Posts	The best response to b5 is Nd5 which can be played against any number of moves we play.