Brexit

[only_human]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

And I see the sore losers have already started a petition drive to get parliament to "do the right thing" because obviously the voter-rabble can't be trusted with that kind of power. Notice how whenever the elites don't get their way they always get a second vote?

Actually the petition was created by leave voter. He created the petition anticipating a remain decision and wanted a subsequent vote. Now that the official result is actually leave, he is complaining that his petition has be been "hijacked."

Brexit campaigner admits he set up second EU referendum petition signed by three million people
So irony exists but of a different nature.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by only_human

Actually the petition was created by leave voter. He created the petition anticipating a remain decision and wanted a subsequent vote. Now that the official result is actually leave, he is complaining that his petition has be been "hijacked."

Hoist by his own petardition.

----------------------

Brexit is Only the Latest Proof of the Insularity and Failure of Western Establishment Institutions | Glenn Greenwald, The Intercept

In 2003, U.S. and British elites joined together to advocate one of the most heinous and immoral aggressive wars in decades: the destruction of Iraq; that it turned out to be centrally based on falsehoods that were ratified by the most trusted institutions, as well as a complete policy failure even on its own terms, gutted public trust.

In 2008, their economic worldview and unrestrained corruption precipitated a global economic crisis that literally caused, and is still causing, billions of people to suffer – in response, they quickly protected the plutocrats who caused the crisis while leaving the victimized masses to cope with the generational fallout. Even now, western elites continue to proselytize markets and impose free trade and globalization without the slightest concern for the vast inequality and destruction of economic security those policies generate.

[only_human]

Originally Posted by firejuggler

"Bregret"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7102516.html

Je ne Bregret rien.

[xilman]

An interesting (to me, if no-one else) response from a Remain supporter is that he's blocked me from his Twitter postings because of my pro-Leave post.

Interesting because it's an example of self-censorship. Unless I faff around setting up another account, I can't read what he has to say on the subject. I've no particular interest in whether he wants my input or not, that's his perogative, but I'm somewhat surprised that an intelligent guy wishes not to keep himself informed, to know his enemy, as Sun Tzu advises.

Oh well. There's nowt as queer as folk, to quote a rather more local philosopher.

[only_human]

Originally Posted by xilman

An interesting (to me, if no-one else) response from a Remain supporter is that he's blocked me from his Twitter postings because of my pro-Leave post.

What kinds of things did you mention in that Twitter post?

I ask because I think your reasoning may be illuminating for me. Was it EU bureaucracy? Too much money directed toward Brussels? To much German influence? Immigration issues? Excessive regulations?

I would highly value your opinions if you care to share any.

[Spherical Cow]

Originally Posted by only_human

I ask because I think your reasoning may be illuminating for me. Was it EU bureaucracy? Too much money directed toward Brussels? To much German influence? Immigration issues? Excessive regulations?

I second that request: Much of what I've read seems to emphasize a feeling of nationalism, and problems with immigration as the basis for "Leave" viewpoints. I had always assumed that there would be enough economic benefits of the EU to overshadow those problems. I'd be interested in hearing more about the "Leave" side of the argument, if you're so inclined.

Norm

[pinhodecarlos]

Double Brexit.

PS( I'm joking but as a foreign leaving in the UK have some concerns about my future)

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by only_human

What kinds of things did you mention in that Twitter post?

I ask because I think your reasoning may be illuminating for me. Was it EU bureaucracy? Too much money directed toward Brussels? To much German influence? Immigration issues? Excessive regulations?

I would highly value your opinions if you care to share any.

Can't speak for Paul, but suggest reading the Glenn Greenwald piece I linked above, and this one:

Mathew D. Rose: Brexit – Land of Hope and Glory | naked capitalism

Brexit is not an anomaly. It is a further link in the concatenation of events occurring in Europe. Its causes are so basic and simple, that corporate media has gone over to a carpet bombing of disinformation and dissimulation, feeding the bigotry and self-delusion of the European elite, most of them nothing more than lackeys and henchmen of the one percent. It is no less mendacious than the lies cast about by the leaders of Brexit.

What we have learnt through Brexit is that the European problem is not only the EU political elite, but the 48 percent as well. You simply cannot damn an increasingly large portion of society to immiseration, intimidate it with arrogance, and withdraw its right to self-dignity, even worse, deny its existence by banning it from the political discourse, as has been the case in Britain.

Let us begin by jettisoning the romantic myth of the European Union. The EU has long ceased to further the interests of the people, who make up its members. Forget Beethoven’s Ode to Joy and all the noise about peace and prosperity. The EU is an undemocratic organisation that primarily and increasingly furthers the interests of international corporations.

Many in Britain do not need an in depth analysis to comprehend this. It determines their life. They know that the EU does nothing for them. Let us give “them” a name: Losers. I remember a good friend describing the Thatcher years with regards to buying his house: “I knew we had to buy one. Society was dividing itself. Those who did not own a house were the losers and most would remain losers. I felt I had to buy a house if I was to have a perspective of becoming a winner.” One may well ask since when democracy divided its population into Winners and Losers.

Re. "One may well ask": Perhaps when it ceases to be democracy in anything but name, and in practice devolves into kleptocratic oligarchy? Alas, this (d)evolution - not necessarily starting with modern-style representative democracy, but more generally with any system that claims to represent the interests and well-being of the citizenry at large - has a long, storied history.

[only_human]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

Can't speak for Paul, but suggest reading the Glenn Greenwald piece I linked above, and this one:

Mathew D. Rose: Brexit – Land of Hope and Glory | naked capitalism

Re. "One may well ask": Perhaps when it ceases to be democracy in anything but name, and in practice devolves into kleptocratic oligarchy? Alas, this (d)evolution - not necessarily starting with modern-style representative democracy, but more generally with any system that claims to represent the interests and well-being of the citizenry at large - has a long, storied history.

I was skimming about the UK not having a direct written constitution. I think something mentioned that the only other major country without one was Saudi Arabia. Anyhow, the Queen does have the power to appoint prime ministers so if she really wanted to she could advance the timetable really quickly. I mention that constitution because what's constitutional is relevant to Article 50: “Any member state may decide to withdraw from the union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.” Not being a direct democracy and with constitutionality being a somewhat hierarchical body of laws and traditions, and the referendum being strictly advisory does put some squishyness on timing if nothing else.

I'm really curious what some residents feel and don't want to obnoxiously step on sensitivities or arrogantly speak much to matters that I have no experience in.

So now Grenada and Scotland and Northern Ireland may find some common cause prior to article 50 being triggered such that the procedure might exclude them; or not. it's not like I really know anything and I know many people are angry or feeling miserable.

As to your mention of citizenry not being represented and a kleptocracy being on a tier above them being a factor... well that's seems to be a problem with all these trade deals placing corporations above nations but I don't see any forthcomming actions being any kind of correction for that.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by only_human

What kinds of things did you mention in that Twitter post?

I ask because I think your reasoning may be illuminating for me. Was it EU bureaucracy? Too much money directed toward Brussels? To much German influence? Immigration issues? Excessive regulations?

I would highly value your opinions if you care to share any.

In that particular post I used two words which indicated my satisfaction with Brexit.

The reasons for having been a Brexit supporter and the reasons why I think the result is very far from perfect will wait for a later post.

[pinhodecarlos]

Originally Posted by xilman

In that particular post I used two words which indicated my satisfaction with Brexit.

The reasons for having been a Brexit supporter and the reasons why I think the result is very far from perfect will wait for a later post.

How old are you Paul?
Have you noticed that Brexit mortgaged the future of the young generations?

Not sure if you've been on UK sites as I do on my scoping audits but I don't see UK citizens on the production lines, only Polish and Russians. English have higher positions. What will happen if all these low wage workers decide to leave UK due to racism, yes, it's already being felt on the streets against the Polish people. I can consider myself lucky as my company has an office in Cologne, Germany, but my wife will probably be unemployed if we decide to move away from UK.
As I said before I've been very welcome on my company, my team consists of three pure English and two Scottish.