Move 11 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish

[MooMoo2]

The poll for move 10 just closed, and the most popular move was Nb3. Stockfish responded with 10...Nce4, and the FEN is:
r2qk2r/pp2bppp/5n2/3p4/4n3/1N3N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQ1RK1 w kq - 2 11

Game so far: 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. exd5 exd5 6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. Bxd7+ Nbxd7 8. O-O Be7 9. dxc5 Nxc5 10. Nb3 Nce4

[Brian-E]

Looking at the position from a static point of view, each side has a strong central square for a knight: d4 is ours, e4 is our opponent's. But Black's e4 square is not a permanent stronghold because we can at some point play f2-f3 if we choose to (though only when opening the a7-g1 diagonal against our king is not dangerous!). Our square d4, however, is ours for good if we keep it under control, because Black has no pawn to attack it.

I suggest that our emphasis in the coming moves should be about maintaining that d4 square, which in concrete terms means never allowing Black to advance that d pawn d5-d4.

On the danger side: our f2 square could be weak if we allow Black moves like ...Ng4, ...Bc5, ...Qb6 in the coming period.

With all that in mind, moves which suggest themselves are occupying d4 with one of the knights (and thereby immediately threatening Nf5), or further strengthening d4 first with 11.c3, or playing 11.Be3 which both strengthens d4 and further protects f2.

Not, I suggest, 11.Re1 right now because the reply 11...Ng4 is embarrassing, forcing either the retreat 12.Rf1, or the awkward looking 12.Re2, or 12.Be3 Nxe3 when Black has exchanged a knight for our more valuable bishop.

I prefer 11.Nfd4 over 11.Nbd4 if we go for occupying d4 at once, for two reasons: the knight on b3 attacks c5 and discourages a later ...Bc5 by Black, and moving our other knight off f3 prevents a later ...Ng4 by Black because of our reply f2-f3 forking the two knights.

[gd_barnes]

Nfe4 with the idea of eventually driving black's knight away from e4 with f2-f3. I do not see the diagonal as a problem because we can eventually put our bishop on e3.

[science_man_88]

I still don't see anything useful for most of the pieces to do I see ways of checkmates if black plays dumb but not much in the way of actually useful moves.

[axn]

Trawling the databases, the overwhelming favorite is 11. Nfd4.
Nbd4, Bf4, and Be3 have been played as well.
The most (overwhelmingly) popular reply is 11. ... Qd7. Apparently the idea is to prevent white's Nf5. The play continues either 12. f3 or 12. Qf3.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by science_man_88

I still don't see anything useful for most of the pieces to do I see ways of checkmates if black plays dumb but not much in the way of actually useful moves.

If you have the time and inclination, I recommend that you play through the following game from the world championship match between Botvinnik and Bronstein in 1951. It starts with the opening from our game (albeit with a couple of transpositions) and it shows some of the ideas. Watch how Botvinnik (White) plays against Black's weak isolated queen's pawn. The players ultimately agree a draw because Bronstein has the pawn well defended, but you will see how Botvinnik puts him under pressure during the game.

If we can play a similar game to the one below, and achieve a draw, it will be a great result against a very strong program.

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. ed5 ed5 5. Ngf3 Nf6 6. Bb5 Bd7 7. Bd7 Nbd7 8. O-O Be7 9. dc5 Nc5 10. Nd4 Qd7
11. N2f3 O-O 12. Ne5 Qc8 13. Bg5 Re8 14. Nd3 Nd3 15. Qd3 Qg4 16. Be3 Bc5 17. h3 Qg6 18. Qg6 hg6 19. Rad1 Re4 20. c3 b6
21. Nc2 Rd8 22. Rd3 Kf8 23. Rfd1 Ke7 24. Kf1 Kd7 25. Bg5 Kc6 26. b4 Bf8 27. Ne3 Re5 28. f4 Re4 29. f5 Re5 30. Bf4 Re4
31. Bg5 Re5 32. Bf4 Re4 33. Bg5 1/2-1/2

Source: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032204

Yes.