Move 10 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish

[MooMoo2]

The poll for move 9 just closed, and the most popular move was dxc5. Stockfish responded with 9...Nxc5, and the FEN is:
r2qk2r/pp2bppp/5n2/2np4/8/5N2/PPPN1PPP/R1BQ1RK1 w kq - 0 10

Game so far: 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. exd5 exd5 6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. Bxd7+ Nbxd7 8. O-O Be7 9. dxc5 Nxc5

[Brian-E]

The isolated black queen's pawn setup is now definitive and we have a strong square for a knight on d4 plus prospects of later playing against the weak black d pawn itself.

Three major possibilities seem to be known here.

(1) Prepare to put a knight on d4 by strengthening this square with the moves Nb3 and c3 (maybe including Re1) before actually occupying it. 9.Nb3 is fine, and we should not fear Black doubling our pawns with the reply 9...Nxb3 10.axb3 because the open a file favours White there, I think. To strengthen d4 we will probably follow up with the move c3, and also we would actually plant either knight on d4. If we play the immediate 9.c3, though, we should be aware that we are giving Black the opportunity of replying 9...Nd3 followed by ...Nxc1.

(2) An immediate 9.Nd4. We then already have a knight on the strong post and Black may need to deal with the immediate possibility of Nf5.

(3) 9.Re1. This is a square we probably want to place the rook on anyway, and we are leaving the handling of which knight to place on d4 flexible for the time being.

[WMHalsdorf]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

The isolated black queen's pawn setup is now definitive and we have a strong square for a knight on d4 plus prospects of later playing against the weak black d pawn itself.

Three major possibilities seem to be known here.

(1) Prepare to put a knight on d4 by strengthening this square with the moves Nb3 and c3 (maybe including Re1) before actually occupying it. 9.Nb3 is fine, and we should not fear Black doubling our pawns with the reply 9...Nxb3 10.axb3 because the open a file favours White there, I think. To strengthen d4 we will probably follow up with the move c3, and also we would actually plant either knight on d4. If we play the immediate 9.c3, though, we should be aware that we are giving Black the opportunity of replying 9...Nd3 followed by ...Nxc1.

(2) An immediate 9.Nd4. We then already have a knight on the strong post and Black may need to deal with the immediate possibility of Nf5.

(3) 9.Re1. This is a square we probably want to place the rook on anyway, and we are leaving the handling of which knight to place on d4 flexible for the time being.

For the the second option (9.d4) if Black responds with a move preventing Nf5 we have can follow up with N2f3 freeing up our Bishop .

[science_man_88]

I'm lost for strategy so I'll let others decide.

I feel that we are in a bad spot. Black not only controls the center of the board but also has more of its pieces on the attack. Whatever moves are to be made will require some elegance. I think we need to get our bishop into play asap and advance some pawns. At this point, one possibility is trading off pieces with the goal of obtaining a better tactical position for a draw and the second is to contemplate something along the lines of a Queen sacrifice in order to seek mate while the black King is still relatively confined. In any case, I believe the next few moves either make or break any chance for a draw or win.

[science_man_88]

Originally Posted by jwaltos

I feel that we are in a bad spot.

I kind of feel that way as well because no matter where we move the knight blocking the bishop currently the best we can do is break even with Nb3 Nxb3 axb3/cxb3 if we move it elsewhere we basically lose a piece on capture with no real rebuttal if we move Nc4 best I see us doing is either a queen exchange or blocking our queen from attack Ne4 has either the knights capture it or the pawn does and it's back to a queen exchange or blocking the line of attack. if we were to move the C pawn I would go for c4 at this point because otherwise the queen can only develop along the lines Qc2 Qf5 or Qe1 Qe2 the rest of those lines are under attack. only four of our pieces can move without potentially hitting an attack those are the queen, the rook, the f3 knight, and the h pawn.

[Brian-E]

jwaltos and science_man_88, we are still "in the book" and our position is fine.

...and the magic words "trust me."

Brian, your explanations are always `on point` and informative. I am willing to boldly go where the book has gone before.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by jwaltos

...and the magic words "trust me."

Brian, your explanations are always `on point` and informative. I am willing to boldly go where the book has gone before.

The magic words, as you rightly imply in your final sentence, are "trust centuries of human experience". Of course, "the book" will shortly leave us high and dry and then we'll be on our own with an opponent against which we ultimately don't stand any chance of avoiding defeat in my opinion. But let's enjoy a good position while it lasts. It's actually the type of position which we can reaonsably hope to maintain for a decent length of time without collapsing because it is characterised by positional considerations and long term strategy, at which we humans can excel, more than precise moves in shorter tactical lines which the computer would play perfectly.

[gd_barnes]

Don't count us out against this beast. This is a very drawish position. One that has been played many times by top level players. There is nothing wrong with white's position. I definitely like most commonly played 10. Nb3 here. From there most common is 10...Nce4 11. Nfd4 Qd7 12. f3 Nd6 13. Nc5. It's not easy for black to push home a win here. We are playing for a draw.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

Don't count us out against this beast. This is a very drawish position. One that has been played many times by top level players. There is nothing wrong with white's position. I definitely like most commonly played 10. Nb3 here. From there most common is 10...Nce4 11. Nfd4 Qd7 12. f3 Nd6 13. Nc5. It's not easy for black to push home a win here. We are playing for a draw.

+1!

But I want to win!

Anyhow, yada, yada, I don't see how we can lose in 34 moves, as it was "forecasted" (huh? is this not a regular verb? why is underlined red?) by occult mediums here Even if I play by myself, in front of the wooden board, I can resist another 15-20 moves.