Move 8 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish

[MooMoo2]

The poll for move 7 just closed, and the most popular move was Bxd7+. Stockfish responded with 7...Nbxd7, and the FEN is:
r2qkb1r/pp1n1ppp/5n2/2pp4/3P4/5N2/PPPN1PPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq - 0 8

Game so far: 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. exd5 exd5 6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. Bxd7+ Nbxd7

[Brian-E]

8.O-O is obvious and is, I suggest, a move we certainly want to play anyway at some point soon.

8.dxc5 is also occasionally played according to the databases. This, I suggest, is also a move which we want to play soon, but the disadvantage of playing it now is that Black has not yet moved the f8 bishop and can win time with 8...Bxc5 developing the bishop and recapturing the pawn at the same time. So the move order 8.O-O Be7 9.dxc5 is better for us from that point of view.

One point in favour of 8.dxc5, though, is that it prevents Black from sneaking out of the isolated queen's pawn set-up (with which we hope to establish a strong square d4 in front of the I.Q.P. for one of our knights) by playing 8...c4. However, after 8.O-O there are no games at all in the database I'm using where Black replies 8...c4. Black always seems to reply 8...Be7. Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with 8.O-O c4 for Black?

Two other possible moves for us are 8.Qe2+ and 8.c3, but I don't like either. After 8.Qe2+ Be7 our queen will merely be vulnerable on the open e file after Black castles. And after 8.c3 I think the reply 8...c4 really is good for Black (or first 8...Qe7+ 9.Qe2 Qxe2+ 10.Kxe2 c4): if we later try to undermine Black's pawns with b2-b3 Black will play ...c4xb3 leaving us with a backward c pawn on a half open file.

[science_man_88]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

One point in favour of 8.dxc5, though, is that it prevents Black from sneaking out of the isolated queen's pawn set-up (with which we hope to establish a strong square d4 in front of the I.Q.P. for one of our knights) by playing 8...c4. However, after 8.O-O there are no games at all in the database I'm using where Black replies 8...c4. Black always seems to reply 8...Be7. Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with 8.O-O c4 for Black?

my first thought is that c4 doesn't accomplish much immediately for black and still allows Re1+ without use of the queen. which may allow the development of our two rooks and the queen on the same file or rank allowing for a three defender four attacker scenario for us. edit: and partially because the bishop is their first line of defense that can't be taken away both knights moving onto the e file to defend could be taken, so without losing their queen the bishop is the best play to defend with. oh and of course it allows them to castle later.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by science_man_88

my first thought is that c4 doesn't accomplish much immediately for black and still allows Re1+ without use of the queen. which may allow the development of our two rooks and the queen on the same file or rank allowing for a three defender four attacker scenario for us.

Yes, I agree. Black can't afford to waste time and must complete its development and get castled.

[gd_barnes]

I think castling makes the most sense for us now. I think that trying to avoid the isolated pawn with a 8...c4 response is weak for black because it appears to give white an edge in development.

[LaurV]

I am for castling too, according with my last post. We are still inside of the book, I don't believe SF will deviate from it. And you guys give very nice explanations, to which I agree.

If I'll have some free time this weekend I will think what our continuation should be after 10...Nce4, there it seems to be a fork, which knight we move and where, opinions vary. We don't have to think much till move 11, the path is locked.

8.O-O also. By the book.

[MooMoo2]

Looks like everyone so far is strongly in favor of O-O. If there aren't any objections within the next day or two, I'll choose this as white's move instead of making a formal poll (similar to what I did for move 2).

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by MooMoo2

Looks like everyone so far is strongly in favor of O-O. If there aren't any objections within the next day or two, I'll choose this as white's move instead of making a formal poll (similar to what I did for move 2).

I know I always have a tendency to be pedantic, but I would really prefer it if you created a poll. I think some people will vote even though they don't have the confidence (or simply the will) to take part in the discussion.