Move 7 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish

[MooMoo2]

The poll for move 6 just closed, and the most popular move was Bb5+. Stockfish responded with 6...Bd7, and the FEN is:
rn1qkb1r/pp1b1ppp/5n2/1Bpp4/3P4/5N2/PPPN1PPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq - 2 7

Game so far: 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. exd5 exd5 6. Bb5+ Bd7

[Brian-E]

The two obvious moves now seem to be 7.Bxd7+ and 7.Qe2+.

axn mentioned the possibility of Qe2+ either here or shortly in last move's discussion. A tempting line if we play it at once is 7.Qe2+ Be7 (7...Qe7 looks very awkward, shutting in the f8 bishop for now if we reply 8.Ne5) 8.dxc5 to be followed later by Nb3 when Black will have to work hard to recover the pawn. We should note that this strategy does not achieve the same thing if we play 7.Bxd7+ first because after 7...Nbxd7 Black has protected c5 with the knight.

However, would such a tricky line as 7.Qe2+ Be7 8.dxc5 be sensible play against a computer? Black has plenty of play and possible tactical tricks after 8...O-O 9.Nb3 Re8 when we have to attend to the dangerous situation on the open e file.

(Of course, there are other courses of action for us following 7.Qe2+ too.)

The simpler line, more modest in our aims but denying Black too much play as well, is 7.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 8.O-O.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

7.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 8.O-O.

I am more for this one, as indicated in most of the opening books as the best continuation (and here, the free opening books end )

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

The simpler line, more modest in our aims but denying Black too much play as well, is 7.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 8.O-O.

I definitely like the immediate capture of the bishop. Many of the lines are drawish from here, which I think is what we should shoot for. LaurV there are many free opening books that go much deeper than this.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

LaurV there are many free opening books that go much deeper than this.

Link please! :please:
(edit: grr, no emoticon for please? how is the guy with the clasped hand called?)

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by LaurV

Link please! :please:
(edit: grr, no emoticon for please? how is the guy with the clasped hand called?)

http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?...=e4.e6&ns=3.16

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?...=e4.e6&ns=3.16

That was one of the first I used, for this game, after someone posted the link, but it only goes 5 moves. Actually, 4 and half. When I click move 5th black it says sorry and it takes me to a registration screen.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by LaurV

That was one of the first I used, for this game, after someone posted the link, but it only goes 5 moves. Actually, 4 and half. When I click move 5th black it says sorry and it takes me to a registration screen.

Just go ahead and register. Create an ID and password. It doesn't cost anything. You can pay to access an even larger database but that is optional. After registering but without paying, many of the lines in this variation go over 12 moves deep.

I still feel that moving the pawn to c4 is a progressive move. My expectation is that black will respond with BxB. If that is the case then I believe white will have a stronger position relative to amassing more coverage over the center. The long view, I would keep developing a stronger position moving outwards toward left of center while arranging for a long distance strike to hook around the black knight. Black, if it had not done so already, would need to castle - which would already have been anticipated.

This link, http://www.chessgames.com/player/sto...computer).html, has provided me with a bit of insight into the mechanics of certain plays...so that I can estimate the viscosity of the quicksand I'm sinking into.

[LaurV]

Thanks. It worked. Then I have the same ID like here. I had a bad experience in the past of getting mails and donation requests every day after registering to a chess db site. They gave up after a while during I was labeling their emails as spam. I hope these guys will be better here. After a while, I may consider a donation, if I think that the site was useful to me (yeah, behind of my big mouth, I am a good guy ), but bothering me every day/week with donation requests I won't stand.

So, I think that the variant 7. Bxd7 Nbxd7 8. O-O Be7 9. dxc5 Nxc5 10. Nb3 Nce4 (interesting, this is copying the links too!) is the best we can do here, white position is quite solid, and there is nothing unclear on the way to it that would make SF to chose a different branch, i.e. all other branches seem "worse" for black, or they degenerate fast into "much worse" for black. We can already think what to do after, when we will run out of DB moves.

Then, after we win, Moomoo will start finding excuses like "yes, but you used the database", etc...

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by jwaltos

I still feel that moving the pawn to c4 is a progressive move. My expectation is that black will respond with BxB. If that is the case then I believe white will have a stronger position relative to amassing more coverage over the center. The long view, I would keep developing a stronger position moving outwards toward left of center while arranging for a long distance strike to hook around the black knight. Black, if it had not done so already, would need to castle - which would already have been anticipated.

This link, http://www.chessgames.com/player/sto...computer).html, has provided me with a bit of insight into the mechanics of certain plays...so that I can estimate the viscosity of the quicksand I'm sinking into.

7. c4 has never been played in the databases that I looked at and it doesn't look good for white. Black does not have to immediately take the bishop and it is he who appears better after 7...Qe7+ 8. Qe2 Bxb5 9. cxb5 Nbd7 10. Qxe7+ Bxe7 11. O-O. White was effectively forced to swap Queens in order to castle, which allowed black to develop his king bishop. White now must also take an extra tempo to develop his queen bishop so he is behind on development. This does not look good for us.