Everyone on mersenneforum vs. Stockfish

[axn]

So, with d4 being the overwhelming favorite (me too!), is there a need for a poll, more discussion, or any other formalities? No other viable candidates have been proposed (save 2. d3)

[LaurV]

Yes, definitively 2.d4
My vote: no need poll.

[MooMoo2]

Originally Posted by axn

Yes. 3-4 days of discussions. Then put up the viable candidates for 2-3 day poll. Although... not really sure whether that much preparation is necessary for opening phase.

EDIT:- Perhaps, create a new threads for discussing new moves?

Originally Posted by axn

So, with d4 being the overwhelming favorite (me too!), is there a need for a poll, more discussion, or any other formalities? No other viable candidates have been proposed (save 2. d3)

Wow, things moved quickly. I was originally going to post a thread to discuss move 2, but it seems like there's already a consensus. With 7 votes for d4 so far and no votes for any other move (even the people who brought up d3 as an option preferred d4), I'll go ahead and take that as the forum's move. In order for d4 to not be selected, it would take at least 7 votes for alternate moves (resulting in a total of 14 or more votes), and only 9 people voted in the last poll for move 1.

Stockfish's response is 2...d5. The FEN is: rnbqkbnr/ppp2ppp/4p3/3p4/3PP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq d6 0 3

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by MooMoo2

(even the people who brought up d3 as an option preferred d4)

We are learning
Looked on the web, and listened to the others who posted after us...
Edit, but don't get too happy, it will get harder before getting easier...

[Brian-E]

Perhaps it would indeed have been too pedantic for a move 2 poll since a lot of people said 2.d4 and that move would almost certainly have won in any poll. But perhaps there are people waiting in the wings who watch the discussion without taking part (shyness? nothing to add to what's already been said?), then might still vote in the poll. Something to bear in mind for future moves perhaps?

Now we have a major choice of lines.

3.Nc3 can lead to complex lines like the Winawer (3...Bb4) or MacCutcheon (3...Nf6 4,Bg5 Bb4), Classical (3...Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7) or the Alekhine-Chatard attack (6.h4 in that last line).

3.e5 is the tricky Advance variation.

3.Nd2 is the more sedate Tarrasch variation.

3.exd5 is the exchange variation which has the reputation of frequently leading to a draw.

What to do against a computer? If we want a strategic game without too many tricky tactical lines in order to use what we might hope is our superior positional understanding (yeah, right!), I would suggest either of the last two, 3.Nd2 or 3.exd5.

What is Stockfish's blend of offense/defense? When it `senses` an attack, would it opt for an offense (usually the best defense)
or a defense? Has anyone noticed this?

Would it be acceptable, assuming I suggested a move, for me to guess Stockfish's response and provide that as well? How many moves will it take to win/lose/draw this match? As a guess and assuming the humans lose, I would hope for 60-100 moves.

[science_man_88]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

Perhaps it would indeed have been too pedantic for a move 2 poll since a lot of people said 2.d4 and that move would almost certainly have won in any poll. But perhaps there are people waiting in the wings who watch the discussion without taking part (shyness? nothing to add to what's already been said?), then might still vote in the poll. Something to bear in mind for future moves perhaps?

Now we have a major choice of lines.

3.Nc3 can lead to complex lines like the Winawer (3...Bb4) or MacCutcheon (3...Nf6 4,Bg5 Bb4), Classical (3...Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7) or the Alekhine-Chatard attack (6.h4 in that last line).

3.e5 is the tricky Advance variation.

3.Nd2 is the more sedate Tarrasch variation.

3.exd5 is the exchange variation which has the reputation of frequently leading to a draw.

What to do against a computer? If we want a strategic game without too many tricky tactical lines in order to use what we might hope is our superior positional understanding (yeah, right!), I would suggest either of the last two, 3.Nd2 or 3.exd5.

another line that came to me is Qe2 because if we re-enforce the trade it allows us a way for our queen to be front and central early if they take us we take them and have the queen in the center if we take them after Qe2 they can't take us with the pawn they'd have left so we could clear a direct threat towards their king early forcing them into an undesirable layout. edit: okay I don't think hard they could get their queen in the center that way as well.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by jwaltos

What is Stockfish's blend of offense/defense? When it `senses` an attack, would it opt for an offense (usually the best defense)
or a defense? Has anyone noticed this?

I would expect Stockfish to play whichever (defence or counterattack) it calculates to be objectively best. But other people might give you a better informed answer.

Originally Posted by jwaltos

Would it be acceptable, assuming I suggested a move, for me to guess Stockfish's response and provide that as well?

Yes, surely that's fine.

Originally Posted by jwaltos

How many moves will it take to win/lose/draw this match? As a guess and assuming the humans lose, I would hope for 60-100 moves.

I hope so too, but I believe that we'll be resigning before move 35, and possibly before move 25. Others may be more optimistic.

Originally Posted by science_man_88

another line that came to me is Qe2 because if we re-enforce the trade it allows us a way for our queen to be front and central early if they take us we take them and have the queen in the center if we take them after Qe2 they can't take us with the pawn they'd have left so we could clear a direct threat towards their king early forcing them into an undesirable layout.

The trouble with the queen in the center so early on is that our opponent can attack it while developing its pieces and therefore gain valuable time. For example: 3.Qe2 dxe4 4.Qxe4 Nf6 developing the knight and forcing us to move the queen again. Losing time like this in the opening is never a good idea.

e5 - set up an opportunity for en passant
Nc6 - expect response as two-prong threat on pawns/developing center presence/initiates opportunity to castle

[gd_barnes]

Perhaps a separate thread should be set up for each move...similar to the first 3 games for each team. This thread will get unwieldy quickly.

I believe that we will last at least 40 moves. If we stay in book for up to 15 moves we'd only have 25 moves left to hold our own.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by jwaltos

e5 - set up an opportunity for en passant
Nc6 - expect response as two-prong threat on pawns/developing center presence/initiates opportunity to castle

Nc6? Huh? It is white to move. Do you mean Nc3? Helpful is if you would include move numbers. May I suggest looking here...
http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?...&ns=3.16.12.17

I personally like 3. Nd2, a quieter variation. Note in the database that black wins quite a bit less frequently and that there are more draws than the more common 3. Nc3.

3. e5 appears weaker. After 3...c5, black has won more games than white in high level games.

My suggestion is to keep in book as long as possible and attempt to play into quiet and drawish positions.