Everyone on mersenneforum vs. Stockfish - Page 2

henryzz · 2015-10-26, 17:37

An alternative might be to challenge a group of people. It wouldn't surprise me if the chess club at my uni would accept a challenge. That would be a good match.

MooMoo2 · 2015-10-27, 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurV

Very interesting idea! I proposed something like that in the past, and I even considered that we (collectively) can win against ANY chess engine, given a week per move to think and discuss. I was criticized for that opinion (oh-pinion!) the discussion is here around, somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

I would just like to voice my own opinion that we don't have a hope of avoiding defeat unless we have someone here who is at least International Master strength (roughly 2400-2550), or unless the program plays on an articially weak setting. As long as everyone involved is prepared for that reality, we shouldn't get too discouraged when our position inevitably deteriorates.

Well, there's only one way to find out who's right

Anyone have any ideas for a good opening move? e4? d4? c4? Nf3? Something else? I'll make a poll with the moves brought up here later this week.

LaurV · 2015-10-27, 07:41

I love the Sicilian "defense", with both black and white woods.

(the only one I know, hehe).
Let's play 1. e4.

OTOH, Brian may be right that we will lose, because when more people play, only some (i.e. few) will get the right move, and that only sometime (i.e. seldom). The most of the people and at most turns will "average" the votes, which will result in some average game. I expressed in the past my (pleasant) surprise that our games here on the forum were actually very good, "better than expected".

From here the optimism: I think we can beat your bloody engine...

2015-10-27, 19:11

If Stockfish moves first (improperly), I would attempt the 2 move checkmate. Otherwise, Nf3.
At some point I would like to overwhelm Stockfish with a complicated board full of options where
ingenuity may surpass algorithmics.

gd_barnes · 2015-10-28, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwaltos

If Stockfish moves first (improperly), I would attempt the 2 move checkmate. Otherwise, Nf3.
At some point I would like to overwhelm Stockfish with a complicated board full of options where
ingenuity may surpass algorithmics.

I'm assuming that this is a joke. You expect the overwhelm a program playing at a rating of likely 2800-3000 with complicated options? You expect to attempt a 2-move checkmate against a program that can see 15-20 plies in many positions? Computers are at their best in complex technical positions. Likely the only chance that we would have would be to beat it will be with long-term quiet strategical positions.

Brian-E · 2015-10-28, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooMoo2

Well, there's only one way to find out who's right

Anyone have any ideas for a good opening move? e4? d4? c4? Nf3? Something else? I'll make a poll with the moves brought up here later this week.

As well as 1.e4, 1.d4, 1.c4 and 1.Nf3, I'd also like to see the moves 1.b3 and 1.g3 in the poll.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-10-28, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

As well as 1.e4, 1.d4, 1.c4 and 1.Nf3, I'd also like to see the moves 1.b3 and 1.g3 in the poll.

That looks like a complete list of moves when playing against a computer.

MooMoo2 · 2015-10-29, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

As well as 1.e4, 1.d4, 1.c4 and 1.Nf3, I'd also like to see the moves 1.b3 and 1.g3 in the poll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMHalsdorf

That looks like a complete list of moves when playing against a computer.

Request granted. The poll closes in 3 days, and Stockfish will make its move less than 24 hours after that.

LaurV · 2015-10-29, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

I'm assuming that this is a joke. You expect the overwhelm a program playing at a rating of likely 2800-3000 with complicated options? You expect to attempt a 2-move checkmate against a program that can see 15-20 plies in many positions? Computers are at their best in complex technical positions. Likely the only chance that we would have would be to beat it will be with long-term quiet strategical positions.

Yes, we think it was a joke. One can not beat a program "tactically", and this is very well seen especially in go. One can never win a local duel (like for conquering a corner or a side) against computer, unless he is really a "master", even if the go engine is not so strong, but generally one can win easy against a very strong go program if he (the human player) plays "strategical game". Getting lured in small local matches against the combinatorial power of the CPU, human mind always lose, even when you know your joseki very well.

Brian-E · 2015-10-29, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooMoo2

Request granted. The poll closes in 3 days, and Stockfish will make its move less than 24 hours after that.

Could I request a bit longer than "less than 24 hours" for the poll to be available each move? I know the game will be slowed down, but some of us aren't here every day.

Would 3 days of voting each move be okay, for example?

axn · 2015-10-29, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

Could I request a bit longer than "less than 24 hours" for the poll to be available each move? I know the game will be slowed down, but some of us aren't here every day.

Would 3 days of voting each move be okay, for example?

I think "less than 24 hours" refers to time allotted to the machine to make the move, not for the humans?

2015-10-27, 07:41	#14
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 24063₈ Posts	I love the Sicilian "defense", with both black and white woods. (the only one I know, hehe). Let's play 1. e4. OTOH, Brian may be right that we will lose, because when more people play, only some (i.e. few) will get the right move, and that only sometime (i.e. seldom). The most of the people and at most turns will "average" the votes, which will result in some average game. I expressed in the past my (pleasant) surprise that our games here on the forum were actually very good, "better than expected". From here the optimism: I think we can beat your bloody engine... Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2015-10-27 at 07:47

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2015-10-26, 17:37	#12
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	An alternative might be to challenge a group of people. It wouldn't surprise me if the chess club at my uni would accept a challenge. That would be a good match.

2015-10-27, 19:11	#15
jwaltos 2²·3·659 Posts	If Stockfish moves first (improperly), I would attempt the 2 move checkmate. Otherwise, Nf3. At some point I would like to overwhelm Stockfish with a complicated board full of options where ingenuity may surpass algorithmics.