Move 27 - Page 2

Brian-E · 2015-09-27, 14:52

I don't know whether they will take on h7 or not. I am merely trying to understand *your* thinking by asking questions. If convinced otherwise, I am - as always - fully prepared to change my mind. But I do need to be convinced first.

Unfortunately, we're pretty much out of time now.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-09-27, 19:16

Since you were on the other team I figured you would have a better Idea of how they think.

Brian-E · 2015-09-27, 20:51

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;411416]Since you were on the other team I figured you would have a better Idea of how they think.[/QUOTE]
Well, I have some idea how they used to react to my bickering, anyway.:smile:

davar55 · 2015-09-27, 22:14

Don't know how they'll play, but I agree with 27..Qf8 after the fact.

Our threats at b2 and f2 seem the crux of our game at this point.
What's their next move if NOT bxh7 or Ra6 (or Qa6), which you two
have replies for?

Brian-E · 2015-09-28, 16:30

[QUOTE=davar55;411424]Don't know how they'll play, but I agree with 27..Qf8 after the fact.

Our threats at b2 and f2 seem the crux of our game at this point.
What's their next move if NOT bxh7 or Ra6 (or Qa6), which you two
have replies for?[/QUOTE]
I don't see much else for them that makes any sense. Neither of their checks 28.Qg3+ or 28.Be6+ seem to accomplish anything as far as I can see (28...Kh8 leaves our king safe in both cases). And they need to do something active because we're hoping to play ...Rb8xb6xb2 with active play if they just sit around and let us.

By the way davar55, I for one would really appreciate it if you're able to take part in the discussions while we're considering the move to play, instead of after we've had to play it without your input. Is it lack of confidence that's stopping you? I don't think either WMH or I are going to pounce on you for suggesting anything, quite the opposite. Sure I will say if I disagree with your views, and no doubt WMH will too, but that's what makes a discussion.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-09-28, 19:44

[QUOTE=Brian-E;411485]I don't see much else for them that makes any sense. Neither of their checks 28.Qg3+ or 28.Be6+ seem to accomplish anything as far as I can see (28...Kh8 leaves our king safe in both cases). And they need to do something active because we're hoping to play ...Rb8xb6xb2 with active play if they just sit around and let us.

By the way davar55, I for one would really appreciate it if you're able to take part in the discussions while we're considering the move to play, instead of after we've had to play it without your input. Is it lack of confidence that's stopping you? I don't think either WMH or I are going to pounce on you for suggesting anything, quite the opposite. Sure I will say if I disagree with your views, and no doubt WMH will too, but that's what makes a discussion.[/QUOTE]

Any move that is suggested now may not be playable now but could playable later, but overlooked if not mentioned.
In this position as White I would play Ra6 (but that is me).

davar55 · 2015-09-28, 20:21

I said going in that I don't have full-time access to a computer, so I'm
not always on-time to the move pace when I log in. I also don't have
a porto-chess-set, so I have to rely on the site tools, which means
looking ahead in my head, not a physical or computer-move board.
And my approach is not very strategic, which may appear as a
modicum of limit of self-confidence (just a modicum...).

With all that, I'll try. But my two teammates have been carrying the
ball pretty well, and I have tried to affirm the moves I've agreed with.
Which is most o them. All but the one or two times I suggested
a more attacking move, which I didn't analyze out or insist on,
probably for the best. Bur on with this interesting game...

davar55 · 2015-09-28, 20:43

If 28. Ra6, they've got Qb5 coming as threat to push the b6 pawn.
So what's our 28th? Do we just try to grab a pawn while
protecting the K at h8? Can they sacrifice (the B) successfully
to push the b6 pawn exchanging R's? Do we have anything
aggressive we can do with our rook (say to a8 while the Q is
still protecting it? I throw out possibilities instead of lines
because that's really how I think (without a board).

Brian-E · 2015-09-29, 13:18

As I implied in post #9, I don't see how White can make progress after 28.Ra6 Kh8. The bishop on f5 is stuck blocking the f file and the white queen is stuck protecting the bishop. Sacrifices (of the bishop for example, as davar55 suggests) don't look promising to me, because it seems to me that our queen and rook can return to the back rank in time to defend against the pawn's advance.

Of course I could well be wrong. Hence the question I asked in post #9 to which I'd naturally still be interested to see any suggested answer.

davar55 · 2015-09-29, 19:58

If they play 28. Qh3, do we play Qg7?

Brian-E · 2015-09-30, 08:03

[QUOTE=davar55;411598]If they play 28. Qh3, do we play Qg7?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I think so. Not 28...h6, I would suggest, because of the resulting extra weakness of the g6 square making the defence of our king harder.

28.Qh3 Qg7 29.Qg3 or 29.Qg4 forces a queen swap, but I don't believe that's their best winning chance.

2015-09-30, 08:03	#22
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;411598]If they play 28. Qh3, do we play Qg7?[/QUOTE] Yes, I think so. Not 28...h6, I would suggest, because of the resulting extra weakness of the g6 square making the defence of our king harder. 28.Qh3 Qg7 29.Qg3 or 29.Qg4 forces a queen swap, but I don't believe that's their best winning chance. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2015-09-30 at 08:05

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2015-09-27, 14:52	#12
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	I don't know whether they will take on h7 or not. I am merely trying to understand your thinking by asking questions. If convinced otherwise, I am - as always - fully prepared to change my mind. But I do need to be convinced first. Unfortunately, we're pretty much out of time now.

2015-09-27, 19:16	#13
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	Since you were on the other team I figured you would have a better Idea of how they think.

2015-09-27, 20:51	#14
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;411416]Since you were on the other team I figured you would have a better Idea of how they think.[/QUOTE] Well, I have some idea how they used to react to my bickering, anyway.:smile:

2015-09-27, 22:14	#15
davar55 May 2004 New York City 4235₁₀ Posts	Don't know how they'll play, but I agree with 27..Qf8 after the fact. Our threats at b2 and f2 seem the crux of our game at this point. What's their next move if NOT bxh7 or Ra6 (or Qa6), which you two have replies for?

2015-09-28, 16:30	#16
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;411424]Don't know how they'll play, but I agree with 27..Qf8 after the fact. Our threats at b2 and f2 seem the crux of our game at this point. What's their next move if NOT bxh7 or Ra6 (or Qa6), which you two have replies for?[/QUOTE] I don't see much else for them that makes any sense. Neither of their checks 28.Qg3+ or 28.Be6+ seem to accomplish anything as far as I can see (28...Kh8 leaves our king safe in both cases). And they need to do something active because we're hoping to play ...Rb8xb6xb2 with active play if they just sit around and let us. By the way davar55, I for one would really appreciate it if you're able to take part in the discussions while we're considering the move to play, instead of after we've had to play it without your input. Is it lack of confidence that's stopping you? I don't think either WMH or I are going to pounce on you for suggesting anything, quite the opposite. Sure I will say if I disagree with your views, and no doubt WMH will too, but that's what makes a discussion.

2015-09-28, 19:44	#17
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;411485]I don't see much else for them that makes any sense. Neither of their checks 28.Qg3+ or 28.Be6+ seem to accomplish anything as far as I can see (28...Kh8 leaves our king safe in both cases). And they need to do something active because we're hoping to play ...Rb8xb6xb2 with active play if they just sit around and let us. By the way davar55, I for one would really appreciate it if you're able to take part in the discussions while we're considering the move to play, instead of after we've had to play it without your input. Is it lack of confidence that's stopping you? I don't think either WMH or I are going to pounce on you for suggesting anything, quite the opposite. Sure I will say if I disagree with your views, and no doubt WMH will too, but that's what makes a discussion.[/QUOTE] Any move that is suggested now may not be playable now but could playable later, but overlooked if not mentioned. In this position as White I would play Ra6 (but that is me).

2015-09-28, 20:21	#18
davar55 May 2004 New York City 1000010001011₂ Posts	I said going in that I don't have full-time access to a computer, so I'm not always on-time to the move pace when I log in. I also don't have a porto-chess-set, so I have to rely on the site tools, which means looking ahead in my head, not a physical or computer-move board. And my approach is not very strategic, which may appear as a modicum of limit of self-confidence (just a modicum...). With all that, I'll try. But my two teammates have been carrying the ball pretty well, and I have tried to affirm the moves I've agreed with. Which is most o them. All but the one or two times I suggested a more attacking move, which I didn't analyze out or insist on, probably for the best. Bur on with this interesting game...

2015-09-28, 20:43	#19
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	If 28. Ra6, they've got Qb5 coming as threat to push the b6 pawn. So what's our 28th? Do we just try to grab a pawn while protecting the K at h8? Can they sacrifice (the B) successfully to push the b6 pawn exchanging R's? Do we have anything aggressive we can do with our rook (say to a8 while the Q is still protecting it? I throw out possibilities instead of lines because that's really how I think (without a board).

2015-09-29, 13:18	#20
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	As I implied in post #9, I don't see how White can make progress after 28.Ra6 Kh8. The bishop on f5 is stuck blocking the f file and the white queen is stuck protecting the bishop. Sacrifices (of the bishop for example, as davar55 suggests) don't look promising to me, because it seems to me that our queen and rook can return to the back rank in time to defend against the pawn's advance. Of course I could well be wrong. Hence the question I asked in post #9 to which I'd naturally still be interested to see any suggested answer.

2015-09-29, 19:58	#21
davar55 May 2004 New York City 10213₈ Posts	If they play 28. Qh3, do we play Qg7?