Move 18

davar55 · 2015-05-23, 10:08

OK, I'm OK with 18. Bxa5 .. Qc8. OK?

What would their likely 19th move then be?

Brian-E · 2015-05-24, 07:57

[QUOTE=davar55;402863]OK, I'm OK with 18. Bxa5 .. Qc8. OK?

What would their likely 19th move then be?[/QUOTE]
Two possibilities after 18.Bxa5 Qc8 are 19.b6 and 19.Bxc7, both of which try to hold on to their extra pawn.

We might have an alternative to 18...Qc8 though. I wonder if 18...Rb7 is better, getting on with preparing either ...Qb8 or ...Rab8 and saving time in comparison.

Anything other than 18...Qc8 or 18...Rb7 looks like a blunder because they are threatening to push b6 and b7 winning material.

davar55 · 2015-05-26, 19:36

Are we prepared for Rfb1 sometime soon? Is that where they might go?

Brian-E · 2015-05-27, 12:35

[QUOTE=davar55;403014]Are we prepared for Rfb1 sometime soon? Is that where they might go?[/QUOTE]
Best give an example line to demonstrate what you mean, then we can all look at it. Chess moves are all about the context of the position in which they are made.

Brian-E · 2015-05-29, 16:01

They've just played 18.Bxa5 as expected.

I'm unsure between 18...Qc8 and 18...Rb7 at the moment. What do you both think? And are there any other possible moves?

WMHalsdorf · 2015-05-29, 18:02

Those are the only moves to choose from. I have yet to look into Rb7. I have looked into Qc8 and haven't found anything that could lead to a win. There are lots of drawing chances however.

davar55 · 2015-05-29, 23:00

If 18 .. Qc8 or Rb7, are we afraid of 19. b6 ?

Brian-E · 2015-05-30, 06:04

[QUOTE=davar55;403213]If 18 .. Qc8 or Rb7, are we afraid of 19. b6 ?[/QUOTE]
Both moves are intended precisely to deal with their current threat of 19.b6 followed by b7 winning material. For example 18...Ne5? 19.b6 Nb5 (19...Nxc4 20.bxc7) 20.b7 Rxa5 21,Nxa5 Nd4 22.Qd2 wins easily.

After either 18...Qc8 or 18...Rb7 we can answer 19.b6 with 19...Nb5 followed by ...Nd4 and I think we can reasonably hope to round up and win the b6 pawn.

However, after 18...Qc8 they might instead choose 19.Bxc7 followed by Na3 which is a more passive set-up but hold onto their extra pawn for the time being. I have decided for the moment that I prefer 18...Qc8 because keeping our a8 rook defended is useful. If 18...Rb7 19.Bxc7 Rxc7 they have 20.Na5 and we seem to be in trouble. Whereas if 18...Qc8 19.Bxc7 Qxc7 they cannot play 20.Na5. Does that sway our decision?

WMHalsdorf · 2015-05-30, 15:29

Once they exchange their black square bishop for one of our knights the chances for a draw increase even with them having an extra pawn.

Brian-E · 2015-05-30, 16:54

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;403236]Once they exchange their black square bishop for one of our knights the chances for a draw increase even with them having an extra pawn.[/QUOTE]
Yes, good point. It leaves bishops of opposite colours.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-05-31, 20:58

Right now I'm leaning towards 18..Qc8 since it has less obvious pitfalls for white to make.

2015-05-23, 10:08	#1
davar55 May 2004 New York City 4235₁₀ Posts	Move 18 OK, I'm OK with 18. Bxa5 .. Qc8. OK? What would their likely 19th move then be?

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2015-05-24, 07:57	#2
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;402863]OK, I'm OK with 18. Bxa5 .. Qc8. OK? What would their likely 19th move then be?[/QUOTE] Two possibilities after 18.Bxa5 Qc8 are 19.b6 and 19.Bxc7, both of which try to hold on to their extra pawn. We might have an alternative to 18...Qc8 though. I wonder if 18...Rb7 is better, getting on with preparing either ...Qb8 or ...Rab8 and saving time in comparison. Anything other than 18...Qc8 or 18...Rb7 looks like a blunder because they are threatening to push b6 and b7 winning material.

2015-05-26, 19:36	#3
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5×7×11² Posts	Are we prepared for Rfb1 sometime soon? Is that where they might go?

2015-05-27, 12:35	#4
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;403014]Are we prepared for Rfb1 sometime soon? Is that where they might go?[/QUOTE] Best give an example line to demonstrate what you mean, then we can all look at it. Chess moves are all about the context of the position in which they are made.

2015-05-29, 16:01	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	They've just played 18.Bxa5 as expected. I'm unsure between 18...Qc8 and 18...Rb7 at the moment. What do you both think? And are there any other possible moves?

2015-05-29, 18:02	#6
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 1001₈ Posts	Those are the only moves to choose from. I have yet to look into Rb7. I have looked into Qc8 and haven't found anything that could lead to a win. There are lots of drawing chances however.

2015-05-29, 23:00	#7
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	If 18 .. Qc8 or Rb7, are we afraid of 19. b6 ?

2015-05-30, 06:04	#8
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;403213]If 18 .. Qc8 or Rb7, are we afraid of 19. b6 ?[/QUOTE] Both moves are intended precisely to deal with their current threat of 19.b6 followed by b7 winning material. For example 18...Ne5? 19.b6 Nb5 (19...Nxc4 20.bxc7) 20.b7 Rxa5 21,Nxa5 Nd4 22.Qd2 wins easily. After either 18...Qc8 or 18...Rb7 we can answer 19.b6 with 19...Nb5 followed by ...Nd4 and I think we can reasonably hope to round up and win the b6 pawn. However, after 18...Qc8 they might instead choose 19.Bxc7 followed by Na3 which is a more passive set-up but hold onto their extra pawn for the time being. I have decided for the moment that I prefer 18...Qc8 because keeping our a8 rook defended is useful. If 18...Rb7 19.Bxc7 Rxc7 they have 20.Na5 and we seem to be in trouble. Whereas if 18...Qc8 19.Bxc7 Qxc7 they cannot play 20.Na5. Does that sway our decision?

2015-05-30, 15:29	#9
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 201₁₆ Posts	Once they exchange their black square bishop for one of our knights the chances for a draw increase even with them having an extra pawn.

2015-05-30, 16:54	#10
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;403236]Once they exchange their black square bishop for one of our knights the chances for a draw increase even with them having an extra pawn.[/QUOTE] Yes, good point. It leaves bishops of opposite colours.

2015-05-31, 20:58	#11
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	Right now I'm leaning towards 18..Qc8 since it has less obvious pitfalls for white to make.