Move 17

Brian-E · 2015-05-18, 08:36

Now that they've finally played their forced move, I guess we may as well discuss ours in a new thread.:smile:

We will lose our a pawn and need to make sure we have adequate compensation, preferably by rounding up and winning their b5 pawn, I suggest. But the immediate 17...Rxb5 can be answered by 18.e5, blocking the long diagonal and threatening Nxd6, and I think we're in trouble unless anyone can see a way out for us.

Suggestion last move was 17...Nc7 18.Bxa5 (not 18.Nxa5 Nxb5) Qc8.

Other suggestions?

davar55 · 2015-05-18, 18:16

[QUOTE=Brian-E;402524]Now that they've finally played their forced move, I guess we may as well discuss ours in a new thread.:smile:
We will lose our a pawn and need to make sure we have adequate compensation, preferably by rounding up and winning their b5 pawn, I suggest. But the immediate 17...Rxb5 can be answered by 18.e5, blocking the long diagonal and threatening Nxd6, and I think we're in trouble unless anyone can see a way out for us.
Suggestion last move was 17...Nc7 18.Bxa5 (not 18.Nxa5 Nxb5) Qc8.
Other suggestions?[/QUOTE]

I like your suggestion Nc7 Bxa5 Qc8. Where can they retreat their B to? c3? Then 19. .. Rxa5 or Nxa5 and I think we're ahead.

davar55 · 2015-05-18, 18:50

[QUOTE=davar55;402551]I like your suggestion Nc7 Bxa5 Qc8. Where can they retreat their B to? c3? Then 19. .. Rxa5 or Nxa5 and I think we're ahead.[/QUOTE]

What if they 19. Bxc7 instead of retreating B ? Is 19. .. Qxc7 still good for us? Can we still go after b5 ?

davar55 · 2015-05-18, 18:56

Just a curiosity question: on what move did we imperceptibly get into the Middle Game ?

Brian-E · 2015-05-19, 15:30

[QUOTE=davar55;402551]I like your suggestion Nc7 Bxa5 Qc8. Where can they retreat their B to? c3? Then 19. .. Rxa5 or Nxa5 and I think we're ahead.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=davar55;402558]What if they 19. Bxc7 instead of retreating B ? Is 19. .. Qxc7 still good for us? Can we still go after b5 ?[/QUOTE]

Either 19.Bc3 or 19.Bxc7 are possible, but I don't see that it's necessary for them to move their bishop from a5 at that point. 19.Bxc7 does have the merit of removing a key attacker of b5 and we'd need some manoeuvring with the other knight to threaten their b5 pawn after that. I hope that they could only hold on to the extra pawn by adopting a passive set-up.

19.b6 Na6 is another possibility for them, but then we have ...Rb7 followed by ...Qb8 and, hopefully, ...Nxb6 to follow.

[QUOTE=davar55;402560]Just a curiosity question: on what move did we imperceptibly get into the Middle Game ?[/QUOTE]
I'd say on about move 11, when the two sides stopped developing pieces.

Brian-E · 2015-05-21, 23:44

WMHalsdorf, hope everything is okay with you. We need to hear your ideas too while we still have time to discuss them.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-05-22, 01:54

I've been giving Rxb5 a hard look but can't come up with either a favorable position or material gain which leaves Nc7.

Brian-E · 2015-05-22, 08:46

Okay. I can't find anything better than 17...Nc7 either. As far as I'm concerned we can play that move.

2015-05-18, 08:36	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	Move 17 Now that they've finally played their forced move, I guess we may as well discuss ours in a new thread.:smile: We will lose our a pawn and need to make sure we have adequate compensation, preferably by rounding up and winning their b5 pawn, I suggest. But the immediate 17...Rxb5 can be answered by 18.e5, blocking the long diagonal and threatening Nxd6, and I think we're in trouble unless anyone can see a way out for us. Suggestion last move was 17...Nc7 18.Bxa5 (not 18.Nxa5 Nxb5) Qc8. Other suggestions?

2015-05-18, 18:50	#3
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5×7×11² Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;402551]I like your suggestion Nc7 Bxa5 Qc8. Where can they retreat their B to? c3? Then 19. .. Rxa5 or Nxa5 and I think we're ahead.[/QUOTE] What if they 19. Bxc7 instead of retreating B ? Is 19. .. Qxc7 still good for us? Can we still go after b5 ? Last fiddled with by davar55 on 2015-05-18 at 18:52

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2015-05-18, 18:16	#2
davar55 May 2004 New York City 10213₈ Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;402524]Now that they've finally played their forced move, I guess we may as well discuss ours in a new thread.:smile: We will lose our a pawn and need to make sure we have adequate compensation, preferably by rounding up and winning their b5 pawn, I suggest. But the immediate 17...Rxb5 can be answered by 18.e5, blocking the long diagonal and threatening Nxd6, and I think we're in trouble unless anyone can see a way out for us. Suggestion last move was 17...Nc7 18.Bxa5 (not 18.Nxa5 Nxb5) Qc8. Other suggestions?[/QUOTE] I like your suggestion Nc7 Bxa5 Qc8. Where can they retreat their B to? c3? Then 19. .. Rxa5 or Nxa5 and I think we're ahead.

2015-05-18, 18:56	#4
davar55 May 2004 New York City 10213₈ Posts	Just a curiosity question: on what move did we imperceptibly get into the Middle Game ?

2015-05-19, 15:30	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;402551]I like your suggestion Nc7 Bxa5 Qc8. Where can they retreat their B to? c3? Then 19. .. Rxa5 or Nxa5 and I think we're ahead.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=davar55;402558]What if they 19. Bxc7 instead of retreating B ? Is 19. .. Qxc7 still good for us? Can we still go after b5 ?[/QUOTE] Either 19.Bc3 or 19.Bxc7 are possible, but I don't see that it's necessary for them to move their bishop from a5 at that point. 19.Bxc7 does have the merit of removing a key attacker of b5 and we'd need some manoeuvring with the other knight to threaten their b5 pawn after that. I hope that they could only hold on to the extra pawn by adopting a passive set-up. 19.b6 Na6 is another possibility for them, but then we have ...Rb7 followed by ...Qb8 and, hopefully, ...Nxb6 to follow. [QUOTE=davar55;402560]Just a curiosity question: on what move did we imperceptibly get into the Middle Game ?[/QUOTE] I'd say on about move 11, when the two sides stopped developing pieces.

2015-05-21, 23:44	#6
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	WMHalsdorf, hope everything is okay with you. We need to hear your ideas too while we still have time to discuss them.

2015-05-22, 01:54	#7
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 513₁₀ Posts	I've been giving Rxb5 a hard look but can't come up with either a favorable position or material gain which leaves Nc7.

2015-05-22, 08:46	#8
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Okay. I can't find anything better than 17...Nc7 either. As far as I'm concerned we can play that move.