Move 13

Brian-E · 2015-04-10, 13:59

Several possibilities for us here:
[LIST][*]An immediate exchange 13...Bxb5. Slight drawback: after 14.Bxb5 we will then have to protect our knight on d7 before being able to start our thematic manoeuvre ...Nf6-e8-c7. Possibly more serious drawback: they might instead consider recapturing 14.axb5 and amassing their forces against our a pawn. That might be good for them, I'm not sure at the moment.[*]13...Ne8 starting the knight manoeuvre at once. Their reply 14.Nc4 forces our queen back to d8 (maintaining protection of a5), which is a little awkward because we have shut the f8 rook away from the queenside for the time being.[*]13...Rfb8 so that when our queen retreats to d8 this rook is already in prime position.[/LIST]Any other possibilities for us to consider? What is everyone's current preference?

WMHalsdorf · 2015-04-10, 15:21

I prefer the move 12.. Rfb8 since it reduces white options the most while not hindering the move sequence Nf6-e8-c7

davar55 · 2015-04-10, 16:34

[QUOTE=Brian-E;399798]Several possibilities for us here:
[LIST][*]An immediate exchange 13...Bxb5. Slight drawback: after 14.Bxb5 we will then have to protect our knight on d7 before being able to start our thematic manoeuvre ...Nf6-e8-c7. Possibly more serious drawback: they might instead consider recapturing 14.axb5 and amassing their forces against our a pawn. That might be good for them, I'm not sure at the moment.[*]13...Ne8 starting the knight manoeuvre at once. Their reply 14.Nc4 forces our queen back to d8 (maintaining protection of a5), which is a little awkward because we have shut the f8 rook away from the queenside for the time being.[*]13...Rfb8 so that when our queen retreats to d8 this rook is already in prime position.[/LIST]Any other possibilities for us to consider? What is everyone's current preference?[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with Rab8? Doesn't constrict the other R. If the b5N moves, exposing the a6B, we exchange B's.
Otherwise we take BxNb5, they take Bxb5 back, we still have play.
Why Rfb8 over Rab8?

Otherwise, I prefer BxN, which I don't like either.

When might they move Qb3 ?

Brian-E · 2015-04-10, 17:59

[QUOTE=davar55;399809]What's wrong with Rab8? Doesn't constrict the other R. If the b5N moves, exposing the a6B, we exchange B's.
Otherwise we take BxNb5, they take Bxb5 back, we still have play.
Why Rfb8 over Rab8?[/QUOTE]
It seems to me that in this position our rooks have little else to do than occupy the a- and b-files. Other squares are passive for them at the moment. And our a pawn may well require more protection soon, especially after the possible pair of captures ...Bxb5, axb5. Perhaps even more importantly, our bishop on a6 would be undefended and possibly vulnerable to tactical tricks after the sequence 13...Rab8 14.Nc4 Qd8. It's true that 13...Rfb8 shuts in the a8 rook for the moment, but we're looking at future possibilities like ...Rb7 followed by ...Rab8, or (if their knight on b5 disappears) ...Ra7.

[QUOTE]Otherwise, I prefer BxN, which I don't like either.[/QUOTE]I'm seriously concerned about their possibility 13...Bxb5 14.axb5 Ra7 15.Nc4 Qc7 16.Bd2. Whether we advance the a pawn to a4 or leave it on a5, it is very vulnerable. We are on the defensive here, I think.

[QUOTE]When might they move Qb3 ?[/QUOTE]That's a possible move for them in various scenarios. Can't answer it generally.

---

My current preference is 13...Rfb8, which WMHalsdorf also indicates.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-04-10, 21:53

Reguarding the rook and bishop moves. Rfb8 instead of Raf8 keeps the threat of an exchange on our terms which is more troublesome than an actual exchange for white.

The Qb3 move is only possible if the e4 pawn is first defended and even then it is not allways possible.

davar55 · 2015-04-11, 01:32

OK, once again I'll go with you two, Rfb8.

(So what's their reply?)

Brian-E · 2015-04-11, 10:09

[QUOTE=davar55;399832]OK, once again I'll go with you two, Rfb8.

(So what's their reply?)[/QUOTE]
Perhaps they'll reply (13...Rfb8) 14.Nc4. Then, after 14...Qd8 we'll have to see whether they choose to take a move to protect their attacked e pawn (15.f3 or 15.Qc2), or immediately put the pressure on our a pawn with 15.Bd2.

Or perhaps they'll play the preparatory ((13...Rfb8) 14.f3, or 14.Qc2, first. But that gives us an extra move on our mission to challenge b5 with 14...Ne8.

---

I'm also still happy with 13...Rfb8. As far as I'm concerned we can go ahead and play that move.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-04-11, 17:15

Posted our reply, now to see how aggressive they are.

davar55 · 2015-04-12, 00:37

Saw the posting. Saw the new posted position.
I concur on their likely progression, and think
we have the advantage. Good teamwork, guys!

2015-04-10, 13:59	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Move 13 Several possibilities for us here: [LIST][]An immediate exchange 13...Bxb5. Slight drawback: after 14.Bxb5 we will then have to protect our knight on d7 before being able to start our thematic manoeuvre ...Nf6-e8-c7. Possibly more serious drawback: they might instead consider recapturing 14.axb5 and amassing their forces against our a pawn. That might be good for them, I'm not sure at the moment.[]13...Ne8 starting the knight manoeuvre at once. Their reply 14.Nc4 forces our queen back to d8 (maintaining protection of a5), which is a little awkward because we have shut the f8 rook away from the queenside for the time being.[*]13...Rfb8 so that when our queen retreats to d8 this rook is already in prime position.[/LIST]Any other possibilities for us to consider? What is everyone's current preference?

2015-04-10, 16:34	#3
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;399798]Several possibilities for us here: [LIST][]An immediate exchange 13...Bxb5. Slight drawback: after 14.Bxb5 we will then have to protect our knight on d7 before being able to start our thematic manoeuvre ...Nf6-e8-c7. Possibly more serious drawback: they might instead consider recapturing 14.axb5 and amassing their forces against our a pawn. That might be good for them, I'm not sure at the moment.[]13...Ne8 starting the knight manoeuvre at once. Their reply 14.Nc4 forces our queen back to d8 (maintaining protection of a5), which is a little awkward because we have shut the f8 rook away from the queenside for the time being.[]13...Rfb8 so that when our queen retreats to d8 this rook is already in prime position.[/LIST]Any other possibilities for us to consider? What is everyone's current preference?[/QUOTE] What's wrong with Rab8? Doesn't constrict the other R. If the b5N moves, exposing the a6B, we exchange B's. Otherwise we take BxNb5, they take Bxb5 back, we still have play. Why Rfb8 over Rab8? Otherwise, I prefer BxN, which I don't like either. When might they move Qb3 ? Last fiddled with by davar55 on 2015-04-10 at 16:37*

2015-04-10, 17:59	#4
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;399809]What's wrong with Rab8? Doesn't constrict the other R. If the b5N moves, exposing the a6B, we exchange B's. Otherwise we take BxNb5, they take Bxb5 back, we still have play. Why Rfb8 over Rab8?[/QUOTE] It seems to me that in this position our rooks have little else to do than occupy the a- and b-files. Other squares are passive for them at the moment. And our a pawn may well require more protection soon, especially after the possible pair of captures ...Bxb5, axb5. Perhaps even more importantly, our bishop on a6 would be undefended and possibly vulnerable to tactical tricks after the sequence 13...Rab8 14.Nc4 Qd8. It's true that 13...Rfb8 shuts in the a8 rook for the moment, but we're looking at future possibilities like ...Rb7 followed by ...Rab8, or (if their knight on b5 disappears) ...Ra7. [QUOTE]Otherwise, I prefer BxN, which I don't like either.[/QUOTE]I'm seriously concerned about their possibility 13...Bxb5 14.axb5 Ra7 15.Nc4 Qc7 16.Bd2. Whether we advance the a pawn to a4 or leave it on a5, it is very vulnerable. We are on the defensive here, I think. [QUOTE]When might they move Qb3 ?[/QUOTE]That's a possible move for them in various scenarios. Can't answer it generally. --- My current preference is 13...Rfb8, which WMHalsdorf also indicates. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2015-04-10 at 18:05

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2015-04-10, 15:21	#2
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 513₁₀ Posts	I prefer the move 12.. Rfb8 since it reduces white options the most while not hindering the move sequence Nf6-e8-c7

2015-04-10, 21:53	#5
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 1000000001₂ Posts	Reguarding the rook and bishop moves. Rfb8 instead of Raf8 keeps the threat of an exchange on our terms which is more troublesome than an actual exchange for white. The Qb3 move is only possible if the e4 pawn is first defended and even then it is not allways possible.

2015-04-11, 01:32	#6
davar55 May 2004 New York City 4235₁₀ Posts	OK, once again I'll go with you two, Rfb8. (So what's their reply?)

2015-04-11, 10:09	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;399832]OK, once again I'll go with you two, Rfb8. (So what's their reply?)[/QUOTE] Perhaps they'll reply (13...Rfb8) 14.Nc4. Then, after 14...Qd8 we'll have to see whether they choose to take a move to protect their attacked e pawn (15.f3 or 15.Qc2), or immediately put the pressure on our a pawn with 15.Bd2. Or perhaps they'll play the preparatory ((13...Rfb8) 14.f3, or 14.Qc2, first. But that gives us an extra move on our mission to challenge b5 with 14...Ne8. --- I'm also still happy with 13...Rfb8. As far as I'm concerned we can go ahead and play that move.

2015-04-11, 17:15	#8
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	Posted our reply, now to see how aggressive they are.

2015-04-12, 00:37	#9
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5×7×11² Posts	Saw the posting. Saw the new posted position. I concur on their likely progression, and think we have the advantage. Good teamwork, guys!