Move 9

davar55 · 2015-02-27, 17:32

If they play 9. Bc4 is our response ..e6 ?
Is their better move 9. Be2 ?
I don't see a good third alternative for them.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-02-27, 23:15

There is Nd2 and then to c4 which allows them to play f3 forming a pawn chain.

Brian-E · 2015-03-01, 10:20

Yes, WMH, the manoeuvre Nf3-d2-c4 does indeed look possible to me. Their knight is well placed on c4 where we can't easily dislodge it, controls key central squares, and initially attacks our queen to compensate for their slight loss of time when still in the opening. And, as you say, it allows them to play f3 with a pawn chain.

However, davar55's suggestion 9.Be2 completing the kingside development first is perhaps more usual.

We'll have to see what they do.

Your suggestion, davar55, of (9.Be2) 9...e6 is playable and has been seen before in the following game, Butnorius-Lauk, Vilnius 1993. White, a Lithuanian grandmaster, made the neat temporary pawn sacrifice 11.e5 after Black had played ...exd5, and this quickly led to an endgame with a clear advantage to White.

[URL]http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1623085[/URL]
[QUOTE]1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. cb5 a6 5. b6 Qb6 6. Nc3 g6 7. Nf3 Bg7 8. e4 O-O 9. Be2 e6 10. O-O ed5 11. e5 Ng4 12. Nd5 Qb7 13. Ng5 Ne5 14. Ne4 d6 15. Ndf6 Kh8 16. Qd6 Nbd7 17. Rd1 Nf6 18. Nf6 Qc6 19. Bf4 Bb7 20. Qc6 Nc6 21. Nd7 Nd4 22. Bf1 Rfe8 23. Nc5 Bc6 24. Rd2 a5 25. Rad1 Nf5 26. b3 h6 27. h3 Kh7 28. Bc4 Re7 29. Bd5 Bd5 30. Rd5 Rc8 31. g4 Nd4 32. Bd6 Ne2 33. Kf1 Ree8 34. Na4 Re4 35. R5d2 Rce8 36. Nc5 Rd4 37. Rd4 Nd4 38. Na4 Rc8 39. Bc5 Ne6 40. Be3 Ng5 41. Kg2 Ne4 42. Rc1 Rd8 43. Rc7 f5 44. gf5 gf5 45. Ra7 Rd5 46. Nb6 Rd6 47. Nc4 Rg6 48. Kf3 Ng5 49. Bg5 Rg5 50. Ra5 Rh5 51. Kg2 Rg5 52. Kf1 Rh5 53. Ne3 Kg6 54. Ng2 1-0

[/QUOTE]Clearly we would need to find an improvement for Black on this if we went for that line.

I think (9.Be2) 9...d6 is safer for us.

EDIT: Of course, you suggested 9...e6 after their move 9.Bc4, not 9.Be2, but I think it's rather similar whichever square they place their bishop.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-03-01, 15:41

I see 3 possibilities for white
9. Be2 to allow castling king side
9. Nd2 to begin a threat on out queen
9. a4 to begin a more aggressive threat on our queen
each of which is best met with 9... d6 which allows us to play Nbd7 to control e5 and a place for our rook on b8. An attack on the queen would then be meet with Qc7 and at some point our bishop on c8 will most likly be placed on b7.

Brian-E · 2015-03-01, 20:01

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;396738]I see 3 possibilities for white
9. Be2 to allow castling king side
9. Nd2 to begin a threat on out queen
9. a4 to begin a more aggressive threat on our queen
each of which is best met with 9... d6 which allows us to play Nbd7 to control e5 and a place for our rook on b8. An attack on the queen would then be meet with Qc7 and at some point our bishop on c8 will most likly be placed on b7.[/QUOTE]
Agreed about 9...d6 and the plan you mention. That is our best way of developing in my opinion as well. And of the three possibilities for them which you list, I very much hope they choose 9.a4 which I think is a positional howler, weakening their b3 and b4 squares precisely down the file we hope to attack along.:grin: Well, I guess it does have the merit of going for control of b6 with the hope of planting a knight there, but I wouldn't do it if I was them.

2015-02-27, 17:32	#1
davar55 May 2004 New York City 10213₈ Posts	Move 9 If they play 9. Bc4 is our response ..e6 ? Is their better move 9. Be2 ? I don't see a good third alternative for them.

2015-03-01, 10:20	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Yes, WMH, the manoeuvre Nf3-d2-c4 does indeed look possible to me. Their knight is well placed on c4 where we can't easily dislodge it, controls key central squares, and initially attacks our queen to compensate for their slight loss of time when still in the opening. And, as you say, it allows them to play f3 with a pawn chain. However, davar55's suggestion 9.Be2 completing the kingside development first is perhaps more usual. We'll have to see what they do. Your suggestion, davar55, of (9.Be2) 9...e6 is playable and has been seen before in the following game, Butnorius-Lauk, Vilnius 1993. White, a Lithuanian grandmaster, made the neat temporary pawn sacrifice 11.e5 after Black had played ...exd5, and this quickly led to an endgame with a clear advantage to White. [URL]http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1623085[/URL] [QUOTE]1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. cb5 a6 5. b6 Qb6 6. Nc3 g6 7. Nf3 Bg7 8. e4 O-O 9. Be2 e6 10. O-O ed5 11. e5 Ng4 12. Nd5 Qb7 13. Ng5 Ne5 14. Ne4 d6 15. Ndf6 Kh8 16. Qd6 Nbd7 17. Rd1 Nf6 18. Nf6 Qc6 19. Bf4 Bb7 20. Qc6 Nc6 21. Nd7 Nd4 22. Bf1 Rfe8 23. Nc5 Bc6 24. Rd2 a5 25. Rad1 Nf5 26. b3 h6 27. h3 Kh7 28. Bc4 Re7 29. Bd5 Bd5 30. Rd5 Rc8 31. g4 Nd4 32. Bd6 Ne2 33. Kf1 Ree8 34. Na4 Re4 35. R5d2 Rce8 36. Nc5 Rd4 37. Rd4 Nd4 38. Na4 Rc8 39. Bc5 Ne6 40. Be3 Ng5 41. Kg2 Ne4 42. Rc1 Rd8 43. Rc7 f5 44. gf5 gf5 45. Ra7 Rd5 46. Nb6 Rd6 47. Nc4 Rg6 48. Kf3 Ng5 49. Bg5 Rg5 50. Ra5 Rh5 51. Kg2 Rg5 52. Kf1 Rh5 53. Ne3 Kg6 54. Ng2 1-0 [/QUOTE]Clearly we would need to find an improvement for Black on this if we went for that line. I think (9.Be2) 9...d6 is safer for us. EDIT: Of course, you suggested 9...e6 after their move 9.Bc4, not 9.Be2, but I think it's rather similar whichever square they place their bishop. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2015-03-01 at 10:24

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2015-02-27, 23:15	#2
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 201₁₆ Posts	There is Nd2 and then to c4 which allows them to play f3 forming a pawn chain.

2015-03-01, 15:41	#4
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 1001₈ Posts	I see 3 possibilities for white 9. Be2 to allow castling king side 9. Nd2 to begin a threat on out queen 9. a4 to begin a more aggressive threat on our queen each of which is best met with 9... d6 which allows us to play Nbd7 to control e5 and a place for our rook on b8. An attack on the queen would then be meet with Qc7 and at some point our bishop on c8 will most likly be placed on b7.

2015-03-01, 20:01	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;396738]I see 3 possibilities for white 9. Be2 to allow castling king side 9. Nd2 to begin a threat on out queen 9. a4 to begin a more aggressive threat on our queen each of which is best met with 9... d6 which allows us to play Nbd7 to control e5 and a place for our rook on b8. An attack on the queen would then be meet with Qc7 and at some point our bishop on c8 will most likly be placed on b7.[/QUOTE] Agreed about 9...d6 and the plan you mention. That is our best way of developing in my opinion as well. And of the three possibilities for them which you list, I very much hope they choose 9.a4 which I think is a positional howler, weakening their b3 and b4 squares precisely down the file we hope to attack along.:grin: Well, I guess it does have the merit of going for control of b6 with the hope of planting a knight there, but I wouldn't do it if I was them.