Move 6

Brian-E · 2015-02-11, 13:16

They've played the obvious move 6.Nc3 allowing them to make the push e2-e4, either next move or shortly afterwards, which we cannot prevent.

Discussion a few days ago centred on whether we should play 6...e6.

The most commonly played moves in the current position are 6...d6 and 6...g6. Both moves, I would suggest, are desirable at some point for us whether now or soon, and both clearly intend the fianchetto of the f8 bishop.

The other two moves which are occasionally seen in master games are 6...e6 and 6...Bb7.

What are everyone's views at the moment?

davar55 · 2015-02-11, 15:40

[QUOTE=Brian-E;395167]They've played the obvious move 6.Nc3 allowing them to make the push e2-e4, either next move or shortly afterwards, which we cannot prevent.

Discussion a few days ago centred on whether we should play 6...e6.

The most commonly played moves in the current position are 6...d6 and 6...g6. Both moves, I would suggest, are desirable at some point for us whether now or soon, and both clearly intend the fianchetto of the f8 bishop.

The other two moves which are occasionally seen in master games are 6...e6 and 6...Bb7.

What are everyone's views at the moment?[/QUOTE]

If we play ..d6, we cut off our alternate play ..Qd6 (which after ..Bb7 triply attacks the pawn at d5) .

davar55 · 2015-02-11, 19:52

That wasn't clear.

By ..e6 followed by ..Bb7 followed by ..Qd6 we attack the d5 pawn triply. Win the pawn
with exchange of Ns then exchange of Qs, leaving us more developed with even material.

If they don't prevent this, which analysis is currently beyond me, but that's my suggested move.
If there's a flaw in mine, I'll gladly settle for yours.

WMHalsdorf · 2015-02-11, 20:10

The advantage of playing g6 now is that it allows use to play any of the other discussed moves later will playing any of those would limit our options later.

Brian-E · 2015-02-11, 21:05

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;395241]The advantage of playing g6 now is that it allows use to play any of the other discussed moves later will playing any of those would limit our options later.[/QUOTE]
I'd be happy with 6...g6 too.

davar55 · 2015-02-12, 00:07

OK, as rear seat driver and team player, I'll go with ..g6 too, all moves suggested being still in play.

davar55 · 2015-02-12, 17:45

After our ..g6, is their move 7. e4 or something else?

WMHalsdorf · 2015-02-12, 20:26

[QUOTE=davar55;395341]After our ..g6, is their move 7. e4 or something else?[/QUOTE]

Most likly.

davar55 · 2015-02-13, 11:57

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;395368]Most likly.[/QUOTE]

I agree. So what woud we follow with?

7. .. e6 or d6 or Bg7 or something else?

Brian-E · 2015-02-13, 13:13

[QUOTE=davar55;395424]I agree. So what woud we follow with?

7. .. e6 or d6 or Bg7 or something else?[/QUOTE]
If it were entirely up to me, either of the latter two.

In my opinion our plan for the time being should be to complete our development with the moves ...d6, ...Bg7, ...O-O and ...Nbd7. Our placing of the c8 bishop, and our subsequent plan, would depend significantly on the further set-up which they adopt, but we already have an obvious trump card in our sights: our coming pressure down the long dark diagonal and down the half-open b file. Their move 5.b6 only partially nullifies the normal queenside pressure which Black has in the Benko Gambit, we can still strike up an initiative on that side of the board, and they don't have an extra pawn to show for it as they would in the more usual Benko Gambit lines.

I'm aware that you have advocated pressuring d5 with the moves ...e6, ...Bb7 and ...Qd6. I feel compelled to assert that I find this an anti-positional plan in the opening, especially the move ...Qd6. If it were to lead to the win of their d pawn, it could possibly be justified, but it doesn't. We need to develop our pieces harmoniously, not leave them stepping on each other's toes and with our queen vulnerable to attack on d6.

Brian-E · 2015-02-13, 13:24

On second thoughts, after 7.e4 I definitely prefer 7...d6. If 7...Bg7 8.e5 Ng8 9.f4 their centre pawns might be over-extended, but we are then far behind in development and in danger of being overwhelmed. Not entirely clear to me at the moment, but I prefer 7...d6 avoiding such adventures.

2015-02-11, 13:16	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	Move 6 They've played the obvious move 6.Nc3 allowing them to make the push e2-e4, either next move or shortly afterwards, which we cannot prevent. Discussion a few days ago centred on whether we should play 6...e6. The most commonly played moves in the current position are 6...d6 and 6...g6. Both moves, I would suggest, are desirable at some point for us whether now or soon, and both clearly intend the fianchetto of the f8 bishop. The other two moves which are occasionally seen in master games are 6...e6 and 6...Bb7. What are everyone's views at the moment?

2015-02-13, 13:13	#10
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;395424]I agree. So what woud we follow with? 7. .. e6 or d6 or Bg7 or something else?[/QUOTE] If it were entirely up to me, either of the latter two. In my opinion our plan for the time being should be to complete our development with the moves ...d6, ...Bg7, ...O-O and ...Nbd7. Our placing of the c8 bishop, and our subsequent plan, would depend significantly on the further set-up which they adopt, but we already have an obvious trump card in our sights: our coming pressure down the long dark diagonal and down the half-open b file. Their move 5.b6 only partially nullifies the normal queenside pressure which Black has in the Benko Gambit, we can still strike up an initiative on that side of the board, and they don't have an extra pawn to show for it as they would in the more usual Benko Gambit lines. I'm aware that you have advocated pressuring d5 with the moves ...e6, ...Bb7 and ...Qd6. I feel compelled to assert that I find this an anti-positional plan in the opening, especially the move ...Qd6. If it were to lead to the win of their d pawn, it could possibly be justified, but it doesn't. We need to develop our pieces harmoniously, not leave them stepping on each other's toes and with our queen vulnerable to attack on d6. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2015-02-13 at 13:14 Reason: notation error

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2015-02-11, 15:40	#2
davar55 May 2004 New York City 1000010001011₂ Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;395167]They've played the obvious move 6.Nc3 allowing them to make the push e2-e4, either next move or shortly afterwards, which we cannot prevent. Discussion a few days ago centred on whether we should play 6...e6. The most commonly played moves in the current position are 6...d6 and 6...g6. Both moves, I would suggest, are desirable at some point for us whether now or soon, and both clearly intend the fianchetto of the f8 bishop. The other two moves which are occasionally seen in master games are 6...e6 and 6...Bb7. What are everyone's views at the moment?[/QUOTE] If we play ..d6, we cut off our alternate play ..Qd6 (which after ..Bb7 triply attacks the pawn at d5) .

2015-02-11, 19:52	#3
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	That wasn't clear. By ..e6 followed by ..Bb7 followed by ..Qd6 we attack the d5 pawn triply. Win the pawn with exchange of Ns then exchange of Qs, leaving us more developed with even material. If they don't prevent this, which analysis is currently beyond me, but that's my suggested move. If there's a flaw in mine, I'll gladly settle for yours.

2015-02-11, 20:10	#4
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³·19 Posts	The advantage of playing g6 now is that it allows use to play any of the other discussed moves later will playing any of those would limit our options later.

2015-02-11, 21:05	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;395241]The advantage of playing g6 now is that it allows use to play any of the other discussed moves later will playing any of those would limit our options later.[/QUOTE] I'd be happy with 6...g6 too.

2015-02-12, 00:07	#6
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	OK, as rear seat driver and team player, I'll go with ..g6 too, all moves suggested being still in play.

2015-02-12, 17:45	#7
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	After our ..g6, is their move 7. e4 or something else?

2015-02-12, 20:26	#8
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 201₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;395341]After our ..g6, is their move 7. e4 or something else?[/QUOTE] Most likly.

2015-02-13, 11:57	#9
davar55 May 2004 New York City 5·7·11² Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;395368]Most likly.[/QUOTE] I agree. So what woud we follow with? 7. .. e6 or d6 or Bg7 or something else?

2015-02-13, 13:24	#11
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	On second thoughts, after 7.e4 I definitely prefer 7...d6. If 7...Bg7 8.e5 Ng8 9.f4 their centre pawns might be over-extended, but we are then far behind in development and in danger of being overwhelmed. Not entirely clear to me at the moment, but I prefer 7...d6 avoiding such adventures.