Move 1 - Page 4

Brian-E · 2015-01-12, 13:06

[QUOTE=davar55;392249]OK. I know ..Ne4 is tactically unsound now, but it may come up soon.
So ..cxd4 or ..g6 seem playable.
Any other third moves reasonable after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 ?
Is ..b5 still possible? Now or soon?[/QUOTE]
In these very early days of the opening, the emphasis for both sides needs to be on (1) development of the pieces (which do nothing useful while still on the back rank), and (2) control of the central squares of the board because they are the most influential squares as we enter the middlegame.

About the move ...b5: in the Benko Gambit, whose main line (though White can play it differently) runs 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.bxa6 Bxa6, the point of the move is (1) to open the a and b files for attack with black rooks and queen, and (2) to undermine the support of the pawn on d5. But at the moment you are suggesting the move ...b5, while (1) is probably still achieved, (2) is not because White has not played the d pawn to d5. That may make the difference between Black having enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn in the regular Benko Gambit, and not having enough in your version.

About ...Ne4: you say it "may come up soon", but not too soon I would suggest. The knight on f6 is beautifully placed now, controlling the central squares e4 and d5. If it occupies one of those central squares (e4), it is no longer [U]controlling[/U] it. On the contrary, it hands control of that square to White who can later attack our knight with pieces like white-squared bishop and queen, potentially forcing the knight to have to move again. This is loss of time, and that can be serious, especially for Black who is behind in development from the start of the game.

We should be concentrating on developing our [U]other[/U] pieces for now, not the already developed knight on f6, and we should strive to [U]control[/U] the centre of the board.

As for alternative moves after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3, we need to look for ones which adhere to the opening principles I mention above. Your suggestion 3...g6 is one such because it prepares to develop the bishop to g7 from where it controls central squares. And 3...cxd4 is another because it removes a white centre pawn which controls key central squares whether it remains on d4 or moves to d5. Can you spot any other reasonable moves which adhere to good opening principles?

davar55 · 2015-01-12, 14:46

[QUOTE=Brian-E;392253]In these very early days of the opening, the emphasis for both sides needs to be on (1) development of the pieces (which do nothing useful while still on the back rank), and (2) control of the central squares of the board because they are the most influential squares as we enter the middlegame.

About the move ...b5: in the Benko Gambit, whose main line (though White can play it differently) runs 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.bxa6 Bxa6, the point of the move is (1) to open the a and b files for attack with black rooks and queen, and (2) to undermine the support of the pawn on d5. But at the moment you are suggesting the move ...b5, while (1) is probably still achieved, (2) is not because White has not played the d pawn to d5. That may make the difference between Black having enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn in the regular Benko Gambit, and not having enough in your version.

About ...Ne4: you say it "may come up soon", but not too soon I would suggest. The knight on f6 is beautifully placed now, controlling the central squares e4 and d5. If it occupies one of those central squares (e4), it is no longer [U]controlling[/U] it. On the contrary, it hands control of that square to White who can later attack our knight with pieces like white-squared bishop and queen, potentially forcing the knight to have to move again. This is loss of time, and that can be serious, especially for Black who is behind in development from the start of the game.

We should be concentrating on developing our [U]other[/U] pieces for now, not the already developed knight on f6, and we should strive to [U]control[/U] the centre of the board.

As for alternative moves after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3, we need to look for ones which adhere to the opening principles I mention above. Your suggestion 3...g6 is one such because it prepares to develop the bishop to g7 from where it controls central squares. And 3...cxd4 is another because it removes a white centre pawn which controls key central squares whether it remains on d4 or moves to d5. Can you spot any other reasonable moves which adhere to good opening principles?[/QUOTE]

OK. I like to present 3 possible reasonable moves at any turn, so I picked Ne4, a bad move as I knew, to learn how
the basic opening principles would clobber such a move in a real position. Thanks for stating the general principles,
that's fine, I'd have to work out the subsequent play by white for white to win, just to see the pitfalls for black of ..Ne4.

I really don't see a better move than ..g6 or ..cxd4 , as I thought I indicated.

Of course, we're waiting for their 2.?? move...

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2015-01-12, 13:06	#34
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=davar55;392249]OK. I know ..Ne4 is tactically unsound now, but it may come up soon. So ..cxd4 or ..g6 seem playable. Any other third moves reasonable after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 ? Is ..b5 still possible? Now or soon?[/QUOTE] In these very early days of the opening, the emphasis for both sides needs to be on (1) development of the pieces (which do nothing useful while still on the back rank), and (2) control of the central squares of the board because they are the most influential squares as we enter the middlegame. About the move ...b5: in the Benko Gambit, whose main line (though White can play it differently) runs 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.bxa6 Bxa6, the point of the move is (1) to open the a and b files for attack with black rooks and queen, and (2) to undermine the support of the pawn on d5. But at the moment you are suggesting the move ...b5, while (1) is probably still achieved, (2) is not because White has not played the d pawn to d5. That may make the difference between Black having enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn in the regular Benko Gambit, and not having enough in your version. About ...Ne4: you say it "may come up soon", but not too soon I would suggest. The knight on f6 is beautifully placed now, controlling the central squares e4 and d5. If it occupies one of those central squares (e4), it is no longer [U]controlling[/U] it. On the contrary, it hands control of that square to White who can later attack our knight with pieces like white-squared bishop and queen, potentially forcing the knight to have to move again. This is loss of time, and that can be serious, especially for Black who is behind in development from the start of the game. We should be concentrating on developing our [U]other[/U] pieces for now, not the already developed knight on f6, and we should strive to [U]control[/U] the centre of the board. As for alternative moves after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3, we need to look for ones which adhere to the opening principles I mention above. Your suggestion 3...g6 is one such because it prepares to develop the bishop to g7 from where it controls central squares. And 3...cxd4 is another because it removes a white centre pawn which controls key central squares whether it remains on d4 or moves to d5. Can you spot any other reasonable moves which adhere to good opening principles?

2015-01-12, 14:46	#35
davar55 May 2004 New York City 1000010001011₂ Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;392253]In these very early days of the opening, the emphasis for both sides needs to be on (1) development of the pieces (which do nothing useful while still on the back rank), and (2) control of the central squares of the board because they are the most influential squares as we enter the middlegame. About the move ...b5: in the Benko Gambit, whose main line (though White can play it differently) runs 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.bxa6 Bxa6, the point of the move is (1) to open the a and b files for attack with black rooks and queen, and (2) to undermine the support of the pawn on d5. But at the moment you are suggesting the move ...b5, while (1) is probably still achieved, (2) is not because White has not played the d pawn to d5. That may make the difference between Black having enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn in the regular Benko Gambit, and not having enough in your version. About ...Ne4: you say it "may come up soon", but not too soon I would suggest. The knight on f6 is beautifully placed now, controlling the central squares e4 and d5. If it occupies one of those central squares (e4), it is no longer [U]controlling[/U] it. On the contrary, it hands control of that square to White who can later attack our knight with pieces like white-squared bishop and queen, potentially forcing the knight to have to move again. This is loss of time, and that can be serious, especially for Black who is behind in development from the start of the game. We should be concentrating on developing our [U]other[/U] pieces for now, not the already developed knight on f6, and we should strive to [U]control[/U] the centre of the board. As for alternative moves after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3, we need to look for ones which adhere to the opening principles I mention above. Your suggestion 3...g6 is one such because it prepares to develop the bishop to g7 from where it controls central squares. And 3...cxd4 is another because it removes a white centre pawn which controls key central squares whether it remains on d4 or moves to d5. Can you spot any other reasonable moves which adhere to good opening principles?[/QUOTE] OK. I like to present 3 possible reasonable moves at any turn, so I picked Ne4, a bad move as I knew, to learn how the basic opening principles would clobber such a move in a real position. Thanks for stating the general principles, that's fine, I'd have to work out the subsequent play by white for white to win, just to see the pitfalls for black of ..Ne4. I really don't see a better move than ..g6 or ..cxd4 , as I thought I indicated. Of course, we're waiting for their 2.?? move...