Move 57

Brian-E · 2014-12-01, 17:59

Well, we can choose our own end, I suppose.

57...Be1 (suggested by Paul last move) 58.Rd4 Bxg3 59.hxg3 Kxg3 has extricated us from the mating net, but we should still resign. A whole rook down, the h pawn is going nowhere (they can give up their bishop for it if they want and still win trivially with their a pawn).

57...Kg4 58.Kg2 and mate next.

57...Ne6/e8 58.Rh5+ Kg4 59.Bd1 mate.

57...Ba1/b2/f6 allows them to take the a pawn if they have nothing better, and that should be resigned.

Either 57...Bb4 or 57...h5 might prolong things a bit. Or is there something simple for them after those moves?

Or we could resign now. Tricky etiquette, that one! Have they demonstrated their win adequately now, or not?

My current slight preference is 57...Bb4 and see what they then do. Or is their response too obvious then?

paulunderwood · 2014-12-01, 18:03

[QUOTE=Brian-E;388818]
57...Bb4 58.Rd4 mates.
[/QUOTE]

Not if we play Bc5 :devil:

Brian-E · 2014-12-01, 18:08

Yes, corrected that one while you were typing your reply.

And I see we have both started a new thread simultaneously too. Whoops.

Shall we carry on here since you replied to me here?

paulunderwood · 2014-12-01, 18:10

Yes. I will try to delete the other thread now. :smile:

Deleted.

Bb4 forces them to take a couple of moves for mating with the Rook.

Brian-E · 2014-12-01, 18:15

Thanks!

Yes, they could bide their time with 57...Bb4 58.Kh1 Bc3 and now 59.Bd1 is zugzwang. That at least would be a nice way for them to finish and a good moment for us to resign.

Or perhaps we should try 57...h5 intending to follow up with ...h4?

paulunderwood · 2014-12-01, 18:26

h5 is possible, but if they go for exchanges, they have a h Pawn, and a Rook and King against our King and Bishop (ignoring the a pawns)

Brian-E · 2014-12-01, 18:33

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;388826]h5 is possible, but if they go for exchanges, they have a h Pawn, and a Rook and King against our King and Bishop (ignoring the a pawns)[/QUOTE]
You're envisaging an exchange of their bishop for our knight? That ending can possibly hold out some hope for us - I don't think we would need to resign it straight off, particularly since our bishop defends our a pawn.

I expect they've got something still more convincing and quick after 57...h5. But I haven't found it so far.

paulunderwood · 2014-12-01, 18:48

57...h5
58.Bf5+ forcing us to play Nxf5
59.Rxf5

and we need to defend h5, either by ...Kg4, 60.Rd5 followed by 61.Kg2 followed by 62.h3 mate; or ...h4 60.gxh4 and I can't see how we can stop the advance of the h pawn.

Brian-E · 2014-12-01, 19:19

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;388831]57...h3
58.Bf5+ forcing us to play Nxf6
59.Rxf6

and we need to defend h4, either by ...Kg4, 60.Rd5 followed by 61.Kg2 followed by 62.h3 mate; or ...h4 60.gxh4 and I can't see how we can stop the advance of the h pawn.[/QUOTE]
The ending after 57...h5 58.Bf5+ Nxf5 59.Rxf5 h4 60.gxh4 Kxh4 is indeed very likely a win for White, but it is not quite resignable in my opinion. Some endings of K+R+P vs K+B can be drawn. The presence of the a pawns makes the defence even more difficult, of course, because the fact that it would be imperative to hold onto our a pawn makes it harder to keep the bishop active and stop the h pawn advancing too far. Perhaps resignation would be necessary pretty quickly, but it isn't totally clear to me that that is the case.

If they really have nothing better than 58.Bf5+ then 57...h5 is our best chance in my opinion.

paulunderwood · 2014-12-01, 19:44

In such a scenario, White only needs to hem in our King and march the King to B5, then take our a pawn with the Rook, and the best we would be able to do is take the Rook with our Bishop, King takes Bishop, and finally our King is too far away to stop the promotion of the a pawn. :sad:

So we could try h5...

henryzz · 2014-12-01, 20:19

57...h5 58.Rxh5+ Nxh5 59.Bf5#
57...h5 58.Rxh5+ Kg4 59.Bd1#

2014-12-01, 17:59	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	Move 57 Well, we can choose our own end, I suppose. 57...Be1 (suggested by Paul last move) 58.Rd4 Bxg3 59.hxg3 Kxg3 has extricated us from the mating net, but we should still resign. A whole rook down, the h pawn is going nowhere (they can give up their bishop for it if they want and still win trivially with their a pawn). 57...Kg4 58.Kg2 and mate next. 57...Ne6/e8 58.Rh5+ Kg4 59.Bd1 mate. 57...Ba1/b2/f6 allows them to take the a pawn if they have nothing better, and that should be resigned. Either 57...Bb4 or 57...h5 might prolong things a bit. Or is there something simple for them after those moves? Or we could resign now. Tricky etiquette, that one! Have they demonstrated their win adequately now, or not? My current slight preference is 57...Bb4 and see what they then do. Or is their response too obvious then? Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2014-12-01 at 18:05 Reason: Stupid mistake corrected

2014-12-01, 18:10	#4
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 11115₈ Posts	Yes. I will try to delete the other thread now. :smile: Deleted. Bb4 forces them to take a couple of moves for mating with the Rook. Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-12-01 at 18:12

2014-12-01, 18:48	#8
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 4685₁₀ Posts	57...h5 58.Bf5+ forcing us to play Nxf5 59.Rxf5 and we need to defend h5, either by ...Kg4, 60.Rd5 followed by 61.Kg2 followed by 62.h3 mate; or ...h4 60.gxh4 and I can't see how we can stop the advance of the h pawn. Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-12-01 at 19:18

2014-12-01, 19:44	#10
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	In such a scenario, White only needs to hem in our King and march the King to B5, then take our a pawn with the Rook, and the best we would be able to do is take the Rook with our Bishop, King takes Bishop, and finally our King is too far away to stop the promotion of the a pawn. :sad: So we could try h5... Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-12-01 at 20:16

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Stockfish game: "Move 9 poll", not "move 2^74,207,281-1 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	1	2016-10-25 18:03
Stockfish game: "Move 8 poll", not "move 3.14159 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	5	2016-10-22 01:55
Stockfish game: "Move 5 poll", not "move 0 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	0	2016-10-05 15:50
Stockfish game: "Move 4 poll", not "move 100 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	0	2016-09-28 19:51
Stockfish game: "Move 2 poll", not "move 2 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	0	2016-09-19 19:56

2014-12-01, 18:03	#2
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 124D₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;388818] 57...Bb4 58.Rd4 mates. [/QUOTE] Not if we play Bc5 :devil:

2014-12-01, 18:08	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Yes, corrected that one while you were typing your reply. And I see we have both started a new thread simultaneously too. Whoops. Shall we carry on here since you replied to me here?

2014-12-01, 18:15	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Thanks! Yes, they could bide their time with 57...Bb4 58.Kh1 Bc3 and now 59.Bd1 is zugzwang. That at least would be a nice way for them to finish and a good moment for us to resign. Or perhaps we should try 57...h5 intending to follow up with ...h4?

2014-12-01, 18:26	#6
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 11115₈ Posts	h5 is possible, but if they go for exchanges, they have a h Pawn, and a Rook and King against our King and Bishop (ignoring the a pawns)

2014-12-01, 18:33	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;388826]h5 is possible, but if they go for exchanges, they have a h Pawn, and a Rook and King against our King and Bishop (ignoring the a pawns)[/QUOTE] You're envisaging an exchange of their bishop for our knight? That ending can possibly hold out some hope for us - I don't think we would need to resign it straight off, particularly since our bishop defends our a pawn. I expect they've got something still more convincing and quick after 57...h5. But I haven't found it so far.

2014-12-01, 19:19	#9
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;388831]57...h3 58.Bf5+ forcing us to play Nxf6 59.Rxf6 and we need to defend h4, either by ...Kg4, 60.Rd5 followed by 61.Kg2 followed by 62.h3 mate; or ...h4 60.gxh4 and I can't see how we can stop the advance of the h pawn.[/QUOTE] The ending after 57...h5 58.Bf5+ Nxf5 59.Rxf5 h4 60.gxh4 Kxh4 is indeed very likely a win for White, but it is not quite resignable in my opinion. Some endings of K+R+P vs K+B can be drawn. The presence of the a pawns makes the defence even more difficult, of course, because the fact that it would be imperative to hold onto our a pawn makes it harder to keep the bishop active and stop the h pawn advancing too far. Perhaps resignation would be necessary pretty quickly, but it isn't totally clear to me that that is the case. If they really have nothing better than 58.Bf5+ then 57...h5 is our best chance in my opinion.

2014-12-01, 20:19	#11
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	57...h5 58.Rxh5+ Nxh5 59.Bf5# 57...h5 58.Rxh5+ Kg4 59.Bd1#