Move 36

Brian-E · 2014-07-12, 19:23

Only 36...Bc5+ and 36...Bxe7 avoid losing a piece and being a rook down as far as I can see.

And 36...Bc5+, suggested by Paul last move, is definitely my choice now. As he pointed out, they must either put their king in the corner (a backward move for the ending) or block their bishop's retreat to f1.

paulunderwood · 2014-07-12, 19:45

Without the check by us we could play:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nb3
38.Bg4 Ke8
39.Ra6 Bb4
40.Rxg6 Bd2

as I pointed out before, but I am happy to go with the majority vote. :smile:

Brian-E · 2014-07-13, 13:48

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377973]Without the check by us we could play:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nb3
38.Bg4 Ke8
39.Ra6 Bb4
40.Rxg6 Bd2

as I pointed out before, but I am happy to go with the majority vote. :smile:[/QUOTE]
The refutation of 37...Nb3, as given in the last thread in response to your posting, was the line 38.[B]Bf1[/B] Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg5 40.Bc4. It was this key move of theirs, Bf1, which we can hope to negate by playing 36...Bc5+, hoping that they might forget what cheesehead probably told them and play the weak reply 37.Kg2,

paulunderwood · 2014-07-13, 13:53

Ah I see now! :blush:

Well, shall we agree on Bc5+ and go ahead and play it?

richs · 2014-07-13, 23:58

I agree with Bc5+ but no need to rush. Give them more time to forget. I can't believe that the three remaining members of their team consulted and agreed on a move in 6 hours.

henryzz · 2014-07-14, 09:35

[QUOTE=Brian-E;378005]The refutation of 37...Nb3, as given in the last thread in response to your posting, was the line 38.[B]Bf1[/B] Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg5 40.Bc4. It was this key move of theirs, Bf1, which we can hope to negate by playing 36...Bc5+, hoping that they might forget what cheesehead probably told them and play the weak reply 37.Kg2,[/QUOTE]
35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nb3
38.Bf1 Kf6
39.Ra6+ Kg7
I am not sure I see the negatives to this position. If he tries 40.Ra7 we just do Kf6. He would need to do something different if he wanted to avoid three-fold repetition.
If he does 40.Bc4 then we do Nd2.

Brian-E · 2014-07-14, 12:57

[QUOTE=henryzz;378044]35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nb3
38.Bf1 Kf6
39.Ra6+ Kg7
I am not sure I see the negatives to this position. If he tries 40.Ra7 we just do Kf6. He would need to do something different if he wanted to avoid three-fold repetition.
If he does 40.Bc4 then we do Nd2.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, this looks possibly good. After 40.Bc4 Nd2 41,Bd3 I thought we would have the unpleasant choice of giving up either our a pawn or [I]both[/I] our kingside pawns, but now I see 41...Nf3+ 42.Kf2 Ne5. If this does indeed work, then we should [I]not[/I] play 36...Bc5+: the line only works if their king starts on g1.

Can anyone else see anything wrong with this line?

By the way, Rich, I am only aware of 2 remaining opponents, LaurV and WMHalsdorf, now that both bsquared and cheesehead have left. No-one else joined them, did they?

paulunderwood · 2014-07-14, 22:12

[QUOTE]35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nb3
38.Bf1 Kf6
39.Ra6+ Kg7[/QUOTE]

38.Bg4 looks bad for us?

Brian-E · 2014-07-15, 17:25

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;378099]38.Bg4 looks bad for us?[/QUOTE]
You looked at this line yourself in the last thread:
[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377569]On second thoughts, we might move like this:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nc3
38.Bg4 Ke8
39.Ra6 Bb4
40.Rxg6 Bd2

Looks okay -- sorry if this is not a new line :unsure:[/QUOTE]
(assuming you meant 37...Nb3).
I responded that I thought 38.Bf1 refuted this line. Now, after David's correction, I'm not so sure it does.
Do you still think your line above is okay for us, Paul (and others)?

paulunderwood · 2014-07-15, 17:34

I think that line is best for us, other than other lines with a knight sacrifice and moving all play to the Kings' side :unsure:

Brian-E · 2014-07-15, 17:49

Are the lines with knight sacrifice and moving play to kingside worth considering in your opinion? If so, what lines do you mean, specifically?

2014-07-12, 19:23	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Move 36 Only 36...Bc5+ and 36...Bxe7 avoid losing a piece and being a rook down as far as I can see. And 36...Bc5+, suggested by Paul last move, is definitely my choice now. As he pointed out, they must either put their king in the corner (a backward move for the ending) or block their bishop's retreat to f1.

2014-07-13, 13:53	#4
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 4685₁₀ Posts	Ah I see now! :blush: Well, shall we agree on Bc5+ and go ahead and play it? Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-07-13 at 13:56

2014-07-14, 22:12	#8
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 1001001001101₂ Posts	[QUOTE]35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bf1 Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg7[/QUOTE] 38.Bg4 looks bad for us? Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-07-14 at 22:12

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2014-07-12, 19:45	#2
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	Without the check by us we could play: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bg4 Ke8 39.Ra6 Bb4 40.Rxg6 Bd2 as I pointed out before, but I am happy to go with the majority vote. :smile:

2014-07-13, 13:48	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377973]Without the check by us we could play: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bg4 Ke8 39.Ra6 Bb4 40.Rxg6 Bd2 as I pointed out before, but I am happy to go with the majority vote. :smile:[/QUOTE] The refutation of 37...Nb3, as given in the last thread in response to your posting, was the line 38.[B]Bf1[/B] Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg5 40.Bc4. It was this key move of theirs, Bf1, which we can hope to negate by playing 36...Bc5+, hoping that they might forget what cheesehead probably told them and play the weak reply 37.Kg2,

2014-07-13, 23:58	#5
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	I agree with Bc5+ but no need to rush. Give them more time to forget. I can't believe that the three remaining members of their team consulted and agreed on a move in 6 hours.

2014-07-14, 09:35	#6
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;378005]The refutation of 37...Nb3, as given in the last thread in response to your posting, was the line 38.[B]Bf1[/B] Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg5 40.Bc4. It was this key move of theirs, Bf1, which we can hope to negate by playing 36...Bc5+, hoping that they might forget what cheesehead probably told them and play the weak reply 37.Kg2,[/QUOTE] 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bf1 Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg7 I am not sure I see the negatives to this position. If he tries 40.Ra7 we just do Kf6. He would need to do something different if he wanted to avoid three-fold repetition. If he does 40.Bc4 then we do Nd2.

2014-07-14, 12:57	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;378044]35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bf1 Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg7 I am not sure I see the negatives to this position. If he tries 40.Ra7 we just do Kf6. He would need to do something different if he wanted to avoid three-fold repetition. If he does 40.Bc4 then we do Nd2.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, this looks possibly good. After 40.Bc4 Nd2 41,Bd3 I thought we would have the unpleasant choice of giving up either our a pawn or [I]both[/I] our kingside pawns, but now I see 41...Nf3+ 42.Kf2 Ne5. If this does indeed work, then we should [I]not[/I] play 36...Bc5+: the line only works if their king starts on g1. Can anyone else see anything wrong with this line? By the way, Rich, I am only aware of 2 remaining opponents, LaurV and WMHalsdorf, now that both bsquared and cheesehead have left. No-one else joined them, did they?

2014-07-15, 17:25	#9
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;378099]38.Bg4 looks bad for us?[/QUOTE] You looked at this line yourself in the last thread: [QUOTE=paulunderwood;377569]On second thoughts, we might move like this: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nc3 38.Bg4 Ke8 39.Ra6 Bb4 40.Rxg6 Bd2 Looks okay -- sorry if this is not a new line :unsure:[/QUOTE] (assuming you meant 37...Nb3). I responded that I thought 38.Bf1 refuted this line. Now, after David's correction, I'm not so sure it does. Do you still think your line above is okay for us, Paul (and others)?

2014-07-15, 17:34	#10
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	I think that line is best for us, other than other lines with a knight sacrifice and moving all play to the Kings' side :unsure:

2014-07-15, 17:49	#11
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	Are the lines with knight sacrifice and moving play to kingside worth considering in your opinion? If so, what lines do you mean, specifically?