Move 35 - Page 2

Brian-E · 2014-07-06, 20:53

Then 40.Ra6 may be picking up a kingside pawn though. If 40...Kf7 41,Be6+, or 40...Ne5 41.Re6+, or 40...h5 41.Be2.

Sigh.

No doubt cheesehead wrote all this down in their forum before walking out.

henryzz · 2014-07-06, 21:04

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377533]I see a way out:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nc4
38.Bg4 Ke8
39.Ra8+ Bd8

:smile:[/QUOTE]
Nb3 is another option to Nc4

40.Ra6 Kf8
41.Rxg6 Ne5
42.Rd6 Be7
43.Rd5 Nxg4
44.Rxa5
I don't think he can do Rxg6 there.

Brian-E · 2014-07-06, 21:18

[QUOTE=henryzz;377537]Nb3 is another option to Nc4

40.Ra6 Kf8
41.Rxg6 Ne5
42.Rd6 Be7
43.Rd5 Nxg4
44.Rxa5
I don't think he can do Rxg6 there.[/QUOTE]
That's a good idea (and a good argument for ...Nc4 rather then ...Nb3).

We still have resources then.

richs · 2014-07-06, 21:51

What if they play 38 Bf1:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nc4
38.Bf1 then Nd6 or Ne5

and our a-pawn is undefended but I still think we have drawing chances.

paulunderwood · 2014-07-06, 23:37

Can you think of any lines where we do not move our Bishop, maybe sacrificing our Knight on e7?

Brian-E · 2014-07-07, 08:35

[QUOTE=richs;377542]What if they play 38 Bf1:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nc4
38.Bf1 then Nd6 or Ne5

and our a-pawn is undefended but I still think we have drawing chances.[/QUOTE]
Indeed. 37...Nb3 instead here doesn't seem to help either:.
35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bf1 Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg5 40.Bc4.

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377545]Can you think of any lines where we do not move our Bishop, maybe sacrificing our Knight on e7?[/QUOTE]
Can't really see that. We would be a whole rook down which is too much.

Maybe we're just going to have to try the best we can with the loss of a pawn. If we have a choice, we'd prefer to give up a kingside pawn rather than our a pawn I think, because their passed a pawn may be lethal with their bishop controlling its queening square. But from Rich's line above, we may not have that choice.

For now, I still advocate 35...Bb4, hoping for the best.

paulunderwood · 2014-07-07, 09:42

[QUOTE=Brian-E;377556]

For now, I still advocate 35...Bb4, hoping for the best.[/QUOTE]

So do I! :smile:

I think we should check White's King before taking e7. This will either shunt the King into the corner or put it into a blocking position on g2.

Brian-E · 2014-07-07, 10:11

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377561]So do I! :smile:

I think we should check White's King before taking e7. This will either shunt the King into the corner or put it into a blocking position on g2.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's a good point. If they put it on g2 they can't play Rich's line. Let's hope that subtlety got lost somewhere deep in cheesehead's reams of analysis, and he's not there to remind them now.:smile:

henryzz · 2014-07-07, 10:49

[QUOTE=henryzz;377537]Nb3 is another option to Nc4

40.Ra6 Kf8
41.Rxg6 Ne5
42.Rd6 Be7
43.Rd5 Nxg4
44.Rxa5
I don't think he can do Rxg6 there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377533]I see a way out:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nc4
38.Bg4 Ke8
39.Ra8+ Bd8

:smile:[/QUOTE]

So we are currently at:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bc5+
37.Kg2 Bxe7
38.Ra7 Nc4
39.Bg4 Ke8
40.Ra8+ Bd8
41.Ra6 Kf8
42.Rxg6 Ne5
43.Rd6 Be7
44.Rd5 Nxg4
45.Rxa5
They could do 37.Kh1 though which would throw a spanner in the works.

paulunderwood · 2014-07-07, 10:56

[QUOTE=henryzz;377564]So we are currently at:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bc5+
37.Kg2 Bxe7
38.Ra7 Nc4
39.Bg4 Ke8
40.Ra8+ Bd8
41.Ra6 Kf8
42.Rxg6 Ne5
43.Rd6 Be7
44.Rd5 Nxg4
45.Rxa5
They could do 37.Kh1 though which would throw a spanner in the works.[/QUOTE]

If they do that maybe we should move 38...Nb3.

paulunderwood · 2014-07-07, 13:56

On second thoughts, we might move like this:

35...Bb4
36.Nxe7 Bxe7
37.Ra7 Nc3
38.Bg4 Ke8
39.Ra6 Bb4
40.Rxg6 Bd2

Looks okay -- sorry if this is not a new line :unsure:

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2014-07-06, 20:53	#12
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Then 40.Ra6 may be picking up a kingside pawn though. If 40...Kf7 41,Be6+, or 40...Ne5 41.Re6+, or 40...h5 41.Be2. Sigh. No doubt cheesehead wrote all this down in their forum before walking out.

2014-07-06, 21:04	#13
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377533]I see a way out: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nc4 38.Bg4 Ke8 39.Ra8+ Bd8 :smile:[/QUOTE] Nb3 is another option to Nc4 40.Ra6 Kf8 41.Rxg6 Ne5 42.Rd6 Be7 43.Rd5 Nxg4 44.Rxa5 I don't think he can do Rxg6 there.

2014-07-06, 21:18	#14
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;377537]Nb3 is another option to Nc4 40.Ra6 Kf8 41.Rxg6 Ne5 42.Rd6 Be7 43.Rd5 Nxg4 44.Rxa5 I don't think he can do Rxg6 there.[/QUOTE] That's a good idea (and a good argument for ...Nc4 rather then ...Nb3). We still have resources then.

2014-07-06, 21:51	#15
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 1718₁₀ Posts	What if they play 38 Bf1: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nc4 38.Bf1 then Nd6 or Ne5 and our a-pawn is undefended but I still think we have drawing chances.

2014-07-06, 23:37	#16
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 124D₁₆ Posts	Can you think of any lines where we do not move our Bishop, maybe sacrificing our Knight on e7?

2014-07-07, 08:35	#17
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;377542]What if they play 38 Bf1: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nc4 38.Bf1 then Nd6 or Ne5 and our a-pawn is undefended but I still think we have drawing chances.[/QUOTE] Indeed. 37...Nb3 instead here doesn't seem to help either:. 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nb3 38.Bf1 Kf6 39.Ra6+ Kg5 40.Bc4. [QUOTE=paulunderwood;377545]Can you think of any lines where we do not move our Bishop, maybe sacrificing our Knight on e7?[/QUOTE] Can't really see that. We would be a whole rook down which is too much. Maybe we're just going to have to try the best we can with the loss of a pawn. If we have a choice, we'd prefer to give up a kingside pawn rather than our a pawn I think, because their passed a pawn may be lethal with their bishop controlling its queening square. But from Rich's line above, we may not have that choice. For now, I still advocate 35...Bb4, hoping for the best.

2014-07-07, 09:42	#18
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;377556] For now, I still advocate 35...Bb4, hoping for the best.[/QUOTE] So do I! :smile: I think we should check White's King before taking e7. This will either shunt the King into the corner or put it into a blocking position on g2.

2014-07-07, 10:11	#19
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;377561]So do I! :smile: I think we should check White's King before taking e7. This will either shunt the King into the corner or put it into a blocking position on g2.[/QUOTE] Yes, that's a good point. If they put it on g2 they can't play Rich's line. Let's hope that subtlety got lost somewhere deep in cheesehead's reams of analysis, and he's not there to remind them now.:smile:

2014-07-07, 10:49	#20
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;377537]Nb3 is another option to Nc4 40.Ra6 Kf8 41.Rxg6 Ne5 42.Rd6 Be7 43.Rd5 Nxg4 44.Rxa5 I don't think he can do Rxg6 there.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=paulunderwood;377533]I see a way out: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nc4 38.Bg4 Ke8 39.Ra8+ Bd8 :smile:[/QUOTE] So we are currently at: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bc5+ 37.Kg2 Bxe7 38.Ra7 Nc4 39.Bg4 Ke8 40.Ra8+ Bd8 41.Ra6 Kf8 42.Rxg6 Ne5 43.Rd6 Be7 44.Rd5 Nxg4 45.Rxa5 They could do 37.Kh1 though which would throw a spanner in the works.

2014-07-07, 10:56	#21
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 11115₈ Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;377564]So we are currently at: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bc5+ 37.Kg2 Bxe7 38.Ra7 Nc4 39.Bg4 Ke8 40.Ra8+ Bd8 41.Ra6 Kf8 42.Rxg6 Ne5 43.Rd6 Be7 44.Rd5 Nxg4 45.Rxa5 They could do 37.Kh1 though which would throw a spanner in the works.[/QUOTE] If they do that maybe we should move 38...Nb3.

2014-07-07, 13:56	#22
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 4685₁₀ Posts	On second thoughts, we might move like this: 35...Bb4 36.Nxe7 Bxe7 37.Ra7 Nc3 38.Bg4 Ke8 39.Ra6 Bb4 40.Rxg6 Bd2 Looks okay -- sorry if this is not a new line :unsure: