Move 28

paulunderwood · 2014-05-16, 14:38

Moving 28...Nb3 leaves e6 weak. However, a5 is undefended and the fork gives us some impetus.

Maybe g5 is a better move for us.

Or Nc6.

Brian-E · 2014-05-16, 15:40

Well, at first glance it seems to me that we must move the knight on d4 because it is now threatened, for example 28...g5 29.cxd4 Bxd4+ 30.Be3 should win easily.

So the weakness of the e6 pawn can't really be avoided, I would think.

Both your suggestions 28...Nb3 and 28...Ndc6 look worth considering. At the moment I much prefer 28...Nb3 to exchange the white knight on c5 which is severely cramping our bishop on c8.

paulunderwood · 2014-05-16, 16:04

[QUOTE=Brian-E;373648]Well, at first glance it seems to me that we must move the knight on d4 because it is now threatened, for example 28...g5 29.cxd4 Bxd4+ 30.Be3 should win easily.
[/QUOTE]

I had not seen that :redface:

Brian-E · 2014-05-16, 16:31

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;373650]I had not seen that :redface:[/QUOTE]
You had to point out the Be3 trick to me in that sequence two moves ago! And I'd seen it before when we all talked about it a few moves before that, but had forgotten it by then. So I guess it's tricky for all of us to keep the ideas of the position in our memories from one move to the next in such a slow game. The team set-up helps us because we can remind each other as need be.

So are 28...Nb3 and 28...Ndc6 the only reasonable moves for us to consider now? It seems so to me, because 28...Ndf5 29.g4 Nh4 30.Be4 leaves the horse stranded, and 28...Nc2 29.Rc1 rounds it up even faster.

richs · 2014-05-17, 23:01

Here is my line starting with Nb3:

28. ... Nb3
29. NxN RxN
30. Nd6+ Kd7
31. NxB NxN
32. Bh3 Rb6
33. c4 Ra6

And we are in the end game with a not very good position.

richs · 2014-05-17, 23:44

And here is how I see it going with Ndc6:

28. ... Ndc6
29. Nxe6 BxN
30. RxB Nd8
31. Ra6 Rb1+
32. Kf2

While we are down a pawn, it's a more agressive position for us.

Thoughts?

Brian-E · 2014-05-18, 13:11

[QUOTE=richs;373729]Here is my line starting with Nb3:

28. ... Nb3
29. NxN RxN
30. Nd6+ Kd7
31. NxB NxN
32. Bh3 Rb6
33. c4 Ra6

And we are in the end game with a not very good position.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=richs;373731]And here is how I see it going with Ndc6:

28. ... Ndc6
29. Nxe6 BxN
30. RxB Nd8
31. Ra6 Rb1+
32. Kf2

While we are down a pawn, it's a more agressive position for us.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
They can follow a similar course of action to your first line if we play 28...Ndc6 as well. So 28...Ndc6 29.Nd6+ followed by Nxc8 and only then taking the e6 pawn. So while your second line is indeed better for us than your first one, I don't think we avoid the first line by playing 28...Ndc6.

And generally speaking, you are quite right, I think, to identify the first line as dismal for us. We should not play the rook so passively and defensively, even if it costs us more material to keep the rook active.

Brian-E · 2014-05-19, 17:37

Three days into our thinking time, perhaps we could all write down which move we currently favour so we can see where we stand?

Mine is currently 28...Nb3.

paulunderwood · 2014-05-19, 18:23

I currently favour 28...Nb3, because we should maintain a material balance after exchanges :smile:

richs · 2014-05-20, 18:26

I am ok with Nb3. David, any thoughts?

henryzz · 2014-05-20, 20:44

[QUOTE=richs;373884]I am ok with Nb3. David, any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Ditto.
Sorry struggling for time a bit currently.

2014-05-16, 14:38	#1
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	Move 28 Moving 28...Nb3 leaves e6 weak. However, a5 is undefended and the fork gives us some impetus. Maybe g5 is a better move for us. Or Nc6. Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-05-16 at 15:17

2014-05-16, 15:40	#2
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	Well, at first glance it seems to me that we must move the knight on d4 because it is now threatened, for example 28...g5 29.cxd4 Bxd4+ 30.Be3 should win easily. So the weakness of the e6 pawn can't really be avoided, I would think. Both your suggestions 28...Nb3 and 28...Ndc6 look worth considering. At the moment I much prefer 28...Nb3 to exchange the white knight on c5 which is severely cramping our bishop on c8. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2014-05-16 at 15:42

2014-05-16, 16:04	#3
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;373648]Well, at first glance it seems to me that we must move the knight on d4 because it is now threatened, for example 28...g5 29.cxd4 Bxd4+ 30.Be3 should win easily. [/QUOTE] I had not seen that :redface: Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-05-16 at 16:05

2014-05-16, 16:31	#4
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;373650]I had not seen that :redface:[/QUOTE] You had to point out the Be3 trick to me in that sequence two moves ago! And I'd seen it before when we all talked about it a few moves before that, but had forgotten it by then. So I guess it's tricky for all of us to keep the ideas of the position in our memories from one move to the next in such a slow game. The team set-up helps us because we can remind each other as need be. So are 28...Nb3 and 28...Ndc6 the only reasonable moves for us to consider now? It seems so to me, because 28...Ndf5 29.g4 Nh4 30.Be4 leaves the horse stranded, and 28...Nc2 29.Rc1 rounds it up even faster. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2014-05-16 at 16:38

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2014-05-17, 23:01	#5
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	Here is my line starting with Nb3: 28. ... Nb3 29. NxN RxN 30. Nd6+ Kd7 31. NxB NxN 32. Bh3 Rb6 33. c4 Ra6 And we are in the end game with a not very good position.

2014-05-17, 23:44	#6
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	And here is how I see it going with Ndc6: 28. ... Ndc6 29. Nxe6 BxN 30. RxB Nd8 31. Ra6 Rb1+ 32. Kf2 While we are down a pawn, it's a more agressive position for us. Thoughts?

2014-05-18, 13:11	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;373729]Here is my line starting with Nb3: 28. ... Nb3 29. NxN RxN 30. Nd6+ Kd7 31. NxB NxN 32. Bh3 Rb6 33. c4 Ra6 And we are in the end game with a not very good position.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=richs;373731]And here is how I see it going with Ndc6: 28. ... Ndc6 29. Nxe6 BxN 30. RxB Nd8 31. Ra6 Rb1+ 32. Kf2 While we are down a pawn, it's a more agressive position for us. Thoughts?[/QUOTE] They can follow a similar course of action to your first line if we play 28...Ndc6 as well. So 28...Ndc6 29.Nd6+ followed by Nxc8 and only then taking the e6 pawn. So while your second line is indeed better for us than your first one, I don't think we avoid the first line by playing 28...Ndc6. And generally speaking, you are quite right, I think, to identify the first line as dismal for us. We should not play the rook so passively and defensively, even if it costs us more material to keep the rook active.

2014-05-19, 17:37	#8
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Three days into our thinking time, perhaps we could all write down which move we currently favour so we can see where we stand? Mine is currently 28...Nb3.

2014-05-19, 18:23	#9
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 4685₁₀ Posts	I currently favour 28...Nb3, because we should maintain a material balance after exchanges :smile:

2014-05-20, 18:26	#10
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	I am ok with Nb3. David, any thoughts?

2014-05-20, 20:44	#11
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 17FD₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;373884]I am ok with Nb3. David, any thoughts?[/QUOTE] Ditto. Sorry struggling for time a bit currently.