Once burned by milk you will blow on cold water - Page 6

TheMawn · 2014-05-03, 07:43

If I've got any proper idea of your setup, this picture may look remotely correct. Either way it should encompass what I'm going for.

kladner · 2014-05-03, 07:54

This is pretty close in a schematic way. Just add the side fan. It sits just above the PSU.

In the current setup, the In-Out divider is much narrower. There is only the 25mm thickness of fans at the top, and the space where the up-down arrows are is full of heatsink, with 120x25mm fans on either side.

kladner · 2014-05-03, 22:50

Ordered H100i from NewEgg. Next to free shipping $3.xx. Hope for it by the end of the week.

kladner · 2014-05-04, 04:02

Example of how it is running now, on a cool evening with the window open. A hot day can push the CPU up to 55-56°, and the GPUs to the mid seventies.

I hope I can configure the liquid cooling rig so that the case ambient, which feeds the GPUs, will go down. It may prove necessary to throttle back the GPUs to stay within my personal thermal limits in the summer.

kladner · 2014-05-09, 01:12

Well, after running the new setup for about 24 hours, I think I can say, "Nice cooler, half-baked, frustrating software. It is difficult to make a clear comparison, though, because our temperatures suddenly shot up to ~90 F, 32 C. That said, it is currently holding a 31 C delta-T.

The GPUs have not exactly benefited, but that, too, is hard to judge given the ambient. I have been playing with core frequency, but the thing which made the biggest difference has been giving up my foam filters, especially the one on the side intake, which fan is running flat out around 2700 rpm. Unfortunately, removing the filter makes it considerably louder, with a whine which was not apparent when filtered.

@TheMawn: I switched the rear radiator fan from intake to exhaust. This is the same arrangement I had pre-radiator: top front intake, top rear exhaust. I cut a new deflector card to separate the airflow of the fans, and reinstalled an angled deflector over the rear fan to direct its hot air away from the intake.

Along the way, I tried both radiator fans blowing in with the rear panel exhaust flipped to intake this didn't work so well even when the ambient was much lower, so I tried taking out the two front fans, so that the case was exhausting there. Not good. Put the front fans back in, flipped the rear back to exhaust. This still wasn't as good as I had hoped, so this afternoon, when I came home to 90C on the GTX 580 and mid 80s on the 570, I reversed the rear radiator fan. I also I also worked on the positioning of the two spot fans that force air between the GPUs.

Things are cooling down a bit, now, with thunderstorms moving closer. Room temp is 27-28C. CPU is at 58, and the GPUs are both at 78. The 580 has been cut back from 844 MHz to 830, and the 570 from 861 to 830.

The system has stayed at least as noisy (probably worse) as it was on air, though again, comparisons are shaky with the 10-12 C jump in ambient.

Under more temperate conditions it was pretty quiet. All the fans are pedal to the metal right now. I could run the H100i at its Balanced setting and keep the CPU around 48C, so I had the same delta-T with the fans turned down some.

As to the Corsair Link software, I am leaning toward what some other people in the Corsair fora have done: remove Link and hook the fans to the motherboard headers under BIOS control. The pump runs at the same speed regardless. The software does some tricks, but since I don't have a windowed case, playing with the pump LED colors is not at all entertaining. The only benefit is that I can change the fans from Windows. I guess there are some neat graphing and logging functions, but I haven't gotten around to playing with those.

TheMawn · 2014-05-09, 02:50

I'm sorry I forgot to tell you to forget about Corsair Link. Corsair has had some seeeeerious problems with it.

Back when I picked up my H80i, some third of the units would have fans that sound like old HDD's defragging, but you could fix this with... wait for it... a firmware update. What in the actual fuck?

Unfortunately, the firmware update absolutely bricked about half of the units. The pump and fans would not run.

My personal experience was that the unit was not 100% detected and I couldn't control the fans or anything. All I could do was switch the LED to red because the rest of my case was red (now everything is blue except the front intake and the motherboard, sadly).

I promptly eradicated all traces of Corsair Link and freed up the USB motherboard header for a better use.

kladner · 2014-05-09, 03:16

Don't sweat it on the Link software. There were plenty of warning I read while waiting for delivery.

I tried it anyhow, but it is now history. Too bad. There are nice possibilities, like changing the fans in Windows. However, this may be the area where trouble starts. Asus AI 2 is also a flaky POS which no longer resides on my system. Perhaps trying to address BIOS controls from Windows is not such a good idea. Fortunately, the firmware update did not brick anything for me. Corsair Link is just not ready for prime time.

I think I need to work on my cardboard and duct tape air flow guides a bit more, though. After my last tweak. the GPUs are back to 81C for the 580, and 76 for the 570, and the room is cooler now.

TheMawn · 2014-05-09, 03:45

Just for fun, try turning off your side fans.

kladner · 2014-05-09, 03:52

I'll give it a shot, but that fan is the main feed to the GPUs. I am not very hopeful that will make a positive impression. The real issue here is that I should have gotten a high air flow type of case instead of one which aimed for quiet. Something with big case fans, and straight through flow, would probably have ended up being quieter than this Fractal Define R4.

TheMawn · 2014-05-09, 06:57

Hmm yeah okay I can see what you're dealing with. Your setup is similar to mine in terms of where fans are but I have 200mm's where you have 120 mms...

With that case, I would have to imagine a front, side and bottom intake, and top and rear exhaust, as the only way to go about it.

I've heard interesting results as far as removing the side intake is concerned. Other than that, you'll have to go noisy...

Are the hard drive bays removable? That would improve your flow quite a bit.

kladner · 2014-05-09, 12:06

Actually, all but the side fan are 140mm.....well, and the radiator fans. I may try putting a 140mm back on the side, though I am not hopeful. The 120 is faster and has higher static pressure as it is 38mm thick.

There are a few other tricks I can try. However, it is becoming obvious that there are limits to what this case can dissipate, short of serious mods. I'm not quite ready to take the saber saw to it, though. Cutting out the perforated steel of the fan mounts and replacing them with wire grills is a path I've taken with other cases.

The large central bay is removable, but has several occupants. It could be rotated 90 degrees, which would open up the flow somewhat, except that the Asus GTX 580 then would not fit. It is huge in length and thickness.

Oh well. Messing with things is part of the motivation anyway.

2014-05-03, 07:43	#56
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 3277₈ Posts	If I've got any proper idea of your setup, this picture may look remotely correct. Either way it should encompass what I'm going for. Attached Thumbnails

2014-05-04, 04:02	#59
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2×3×1,693 Posts	Example of how it is running now, on a cool evening with the window open. A hot day can push the CPU up to 55-56°, and the GPUs to the mid seventies. I hope I can configure the liquid cooling rig so that the case ambient, which feeds the GPUs, will go down. It may prove necessary to throttle back the GPUs to stay within my personal thermal limits in the summer. Attached Thumbnails Last fiddled with by kladner on 2014-05-04 at 04:17

2014-05-09, 01:12	#60
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 23656₈ Posts	Well, after running the new setup for about 24 hours, I think I can say, "Nice cooler, half-baked, frustrating software. It is difficult to make a clear comparison, though, because our temperatures suddenly shot up to ~90 F, 32 C. That said, it is currently holding a 31 C delta-T. The GPUs have not exactly benefited, but that, too, is hard to judge given the ambient. I have been playing with core frequency, but the thing which made the biggest difference has been giving up my foam filters, especially the one on the side intake, which fan is running flat out around 2700 rpm. Unfortunately, removing the filter makes it considerably louder, with a whine which was not apparent when filtered. @TheMawn: I switched the rear radiator fan from intake to exhaust. This is the same arrangement I had pre-radiator: top front intake, top rear exhaust. I cut a new deflector card to separate the airflow of the fans, and reinstalled an angled deflector over the rear fan to direct its hot air away from the intake. Along the way, I tried both radiator fans blowing in with the rear panel exhaust flipped to intake this didn't work so well even when the ambient was much lower, so I tried taking out the two front fans, so that the case was exhausting there. Not good. Put the front fans back in, flipped the rear back to exhaust. This still wasn't as good as I had hoped, so this afternoon, when I came home to 90C on the GTX 580 and mid 80s on the 570, I reversed the rear radiator fan. I also I also worked on the positioning of the two spot fans that force air between the GPUs. Things are cooling down a bit, now, with thunderstorms moving closer. Room temp is 27-28C. CPU is at 58, and the GPUs are both at 78. The 580 has been cut back from 844 MHz to 830, and the 570 from 861 to 830. The system has stayed at least as noisy (probably worse) as it was on air, though again, comparisons are shaky with the 10-12 C jump in ambient. Under more temperate conditions it was pretty quiet. All the fans are pedal to the metal right now. I could run the H100i at its Balanced setting and keep the CPU around 48C, so I had the same delta-T with the fans turned down some. As to the Corsair Link software, I am leaning toward what some other people in the Corsair fora have done: remove Link and hook the fans to the motherboard headers under BIOS control. The pump runs at the same speed regardless. The software does some tricks, but since I don't have a windowed case, playing with the pump LED colors is not at all entertaining. The only benefit is that I can change the fans from Windows. I guess there are some neat graphing and logging functions, but I haven't gotten around to playing with those. Last fiddled with by kladner on 2014-05-09 at 01:14 Reason: pump comment

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2014-05-03, 07:54	#57
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2×3×1,693 Posts	This is pretty close in a schematic way. Just add the side fan. It sits just above the PSU. In the current setup, the In-Out divider is much narrower. There is only the 25mm thickness of fans at the top, and the space where the up-down arrows are is full of heatsink, with 120x25mm fans on either side.

2014-05-03, 22:50	#58
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2·3·1,693 Posts	Ordered H100i from NewEgg. Next to free shipping $3.xx. Hope for it by the end of the week.

2014-05-09, 02:50	#61
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 11×157 Posts	I'm sorry I forgot to tell you to forget about Corsair Link. Corsair has had some seeeeerious problems with it. Back when I picked up my H80i, some third of the units would have fans that sound like old HDD's defragging, but you could fix this with... wait for it... a firmware update. What in the actual fuck? Unfortunately, the firmware update absolutely bricked about half of the units. The pump and fans would not run. My personal experience was that the unit was not 100% detected and I couldn't control the fans or anything. All I could do was switch the LED to red because the rest of my case was red (now everything is blue except the front intake and the motherboard, sadly). I promptly eradicated all traces of Corsair Link and freed up the USB motherboard header for a better use.

2014-05-09, 03:16	#62
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2×3×1,693 Posts	Don't sweat it on the Link software. There were plenty of warning I read while waiting for delivery. I tried it anyhow, but it is now history. Too bad. There are nice possibilities, like changing the fans in Windows. However, this may be the area where trouble starts. Asus AI 2 is also a flaky POS which no longer resides on my system. Perhaps trying to address BIOS controls from Windows is not such a good idea. Fortunately, the firmware update did not brick anything for me. Corsair Link is just not ready for prime time. I think I need to work on my cardboard and duct tape air flow guides a bit more, though. After my last tweak. the GPUs are back to 81C for the 580, and 76 for the 570, and the room is cooler now.

2014-05-09, 03:45	#63
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 11·157 Posts	Just for fun, try turning off your side fans.

2014-05-09, 03:52	#64
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2·3·1,693 Posts	I'll give it a shot, but that fan is the main feed to the GPUs. I am not very hopeful that will make a positive impression. The real issue here is that I should have gotten a high air flow type of case instead of one which aimed for quiet. Something with big case fans, and straight through flow, would probably have ended up being quieter than this Fractal Define R4.

2014-05-09, 06:57	#65
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 11·157 Posts	Hmm yeah okay I can see what you're dealing with. Your setup is similar to mine in terms of where fans are but I have 200mm's where you have 120 mms... With that case, I would have to imagine a front, side and bottom intake, and top and rear exhaust, as the only way to go about it. I've heard interesting results as far as removing the side intake is concerned. Other than that, you'll have to go noisy... Are the hard drive bays removable? That would improve your flow quite a bit.

2014-05-09, 12:06	#66
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2×3×1,693 Posts	Actually, all but the side fan are 140mm.....well, and the radiator fans. I may try putting a 140mm back on the side, though I am not hopeful. The 120 is faster and has higher static pressure as it is 38mm thick. There are a few other tricks I can try. However, it is becoming obvious that there are limits to what this case can dissipate, short of serious mods. I'm not quite ready to take the saber saw to it, though. Cutting out the perforated steel of the fan mounts and replacing them with wire grills is a path I've taken with other cases. The large central bay is removable, but has several occupants. It could be rotated 90 degrees, which would open up the flow somewhat, except that the Asus GTX 580 then would not fit. It is huge in length and thickness. Oh well. Messing with things is part of the motivation anyway.