Move 22

paulunderwood · 2014-03-06, 19:43

I think our best reply is 22.Bd2 g5. We will lose c5, but our move, g5, will free our Bishop, ready for us to advance our f-Pawn. :smile:

Brian-E · 2014-03-06, 22:12

The aim to advance the f pawn (specifically ...f5 to take away either the square e4 from them or the squares d6 and f6 if they take e.p.) resonates with me too. But how about 22...Nd5 which aims for that too when we sort out the hanging c6 knight but seems (to me) more constructive than 22...g5.

paulunderwood · 2014-03-06, 23:10

Yes. One line is:

22...Nd5
23.Ne3 Ra8
24.Nxc4 Ba6
25.Nd6+ Ke7
26.White move their Rook or take our Bishop

:smile:

paulunderwood · 2014-03-07, 00:02

A better line, maybe:

22...Nd5
23.Ne3 Bd7
24.Nxc4 Ke7 (helping protect d6 and positioned to help defend f7 and f6)

:smile:

Brian-E · 2014-03-07, 10:08

Those lines following 22...Nd5 look plausible, yes.

It might be worth just listing all reasonable possibilities that we have and weighing them up.

22...g5 originally suggested by Paul to blunt the attack on h6 and thus prepare to advance the f pawn.

22...h5 with similar effect, but also directed against their move g4 and thus possibly securing the f5 square for a knight later; but weakening our dark squares in that area of the board.

22...Nd5 analysed by Paul above.

22...bxc3 analysed by Rich in the last thread.

22...b3 closing things up (b pawn will be weak if and when our c pawn falls)

22...Bd7 protecting c6 and bringing the connection of our rooks a step closer.

Are there any other constructive moves to add to this list?

henryzz · 2014-03-07, 13:08

I would add f6. Hopefully later today I will have time to put forward some analysis on that move.

henryzz · 2014-03-07, 13:16

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;368467]Yes. One line is:

22...Nd5
23.Ne3 Ra8
24.Nxc4 Ba6
25.Nd6+ Ke7
26.White move their Rook or take our Bishop

:smile:[/QUOTE]

22...Nd5
23.Ne3 Ra8
24.Nxd5 exd5
25.Bxd5

paulunderwood · 2014-03-07, 18:05

[QUOTE=henryzz;368519]22...Nd5
23.Ne3 Ra8
24.Nxd5 exd5
25.Bxd5[/QUOTE]

Yes, well spotted. Another line:

22...Bd7
23.Ne3 g5
24.Nxc4 f6
25.Nd6+ Kd8

:smile:

henryzz · 2014-03-07, 22:16

22...f6
23.exf6 Rxf6
24.Re1 bxc3
25.bxc3 e5
26.d5 Nd8

richs · 2014-03-08, 00:46

Looking further at Paul's Bd7 line:

22...Bd7
23.Ne3 g5
24.Nxc4 f6
25.Nd6+ Kd8
26.Nb7+ Kc7
27.Nxd7 kxd7
28.Nc5+ Ke8
29.Nxe6

and our rook and bishop are forked. Bd7 is not my preferred move since it congests our pieces even more.

Looking at David's f6 line:

22...f6
23.exf6 Rxf6
24.Rxf6 Bxf6 (assuming they take the rook exchange)
25.Ne4 Bg7
26.Nd3 bxc3
27.bxc3 e5
28.dxe5 Nxe5
29.Nd4+ Kf8

and we have two bishops and a knight vs. their two knights and a bishop, and pawns are even.

paulunderwood · 2014-03-08, 01:19

[QUOTE=richs;368559].

Looking at David's f6 line:

22...f6
23.exf6 Rxf6
24.Rxf6 Bxf6 (assuming they take the rook exchange)
25.Ne4 Bg7
26.Nd3 bxc3
27.bxc3 e5
28.dxe5 Nxe5
29.Nd4+ Kf8

.[/QUOTE]

Why not 25.Bxh6...?

Edit: I see now. After exchanges on the diagonal, our Bishop captures their Rook.

2014-03-06, 19:43	#1
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	Move 22 I think our best reply is 22.Bd2 g5. We will lose c5, but our move, g5, will free our Bishop, ready for us to advance our f-Pawn. :smile: Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-03-06 at 19:43

2014-03-06, 22:12	#2
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	The aim to advance the f pawn (specifically ...f5 to take away either the square e4 from them or the squares d6 and f6 if they take e.p.) resonates with me too. But how about 22...Nd5 which aims for that too when we sort out the hanging c6 knight but seems (to me) more constructive than 22...g5. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2014-03-06 at 22:14

2014-03-07, 18:05	#8
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 124D₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;368519]22...Nd5 23.Ne3 Ra8 24.Nxd5 exd5 25.Bxd5[/QUOTE] Yes, well spotted. Another line: 22...Bd7 23.Ne3 g5 24.Nxc4 f6 25.Nd6+ Kd8 :smile: Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-03-07 at 18:05

2014-03-08, 01:19	#11
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	[QUOTE=richs;368559]. Looking at David's f6 line: 22...f6 23.exf6 Rxf6 24.Rxf6 Bxf6 (assuming they take the rook exchange) 25.Ne4 Bg7 26.Nd3 bxc3 27.bxc3 e5 28.dxe5 Nxe5 29.Nd4+ Kf8 .[/QUOTE] Why not 25.Bxh6...? Edit: I see now. After exchanges on the diagonal, our Bishop captures their Rook. Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2014-03-08 at 01:53

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2014-03-06, 23:10	#3
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 1001001001101₂ Posts	Yes. One line is: 22...Nd5 23.Ne3 Ra8 24.Nxc4 Ba6 25.Nd6+ Ke7 26.White move their Rook or take our Bishop :smile:

2014-03-07, 00:02	#4
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 124D₁₆ Posts	A better line, maybe: 22...Nd5 23.Ne3 Bd7 24.Nxc4 Ke7 (helping protect d6 and positioned to help defend f7 and f6) :smile:

2014-03-07, 10:08	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	Those lines following 22...Nd5 look plausible, yes. It might be worth just listing all reasonable possibilities that we have and weighing them up. 22...g5 originally suggested by Paul to blunt the attack on h6 and thus prepare to advance the f pawn. 22...h5 with similar effect, but also directed against their move g4 and thus possibly securing the f5 square for a knight later; but weakening our dark squares in that area of the board. 22...Nd5 analysed by Paul above. 22...bxc3 analysed by Rich in the last thread. 22...b3 closing things up (b pawn will be weak if and when our c pawn falls) 22...Bd7 protecting c6 and bringing the connection of our rooks a step closer. Are there any other constructive moves to add to this list?

2014-03-07, 13:08	#6
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	I would add f6. Hopefully later today I will have time to put forward some analysis on that move.

2014-03-07, 13:16	#7
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;368467]Yes. One line is: 22...Nd5 23.Ne3 Ra8 24.Nxc4 Ba6 25.Nd6+ Ke7 26.White move their Rook or take our Bishop :smile:[/QUOTE] 22...Nd5 23.Ne3 Ra8 24.Nxd5 exd5 25.Bxd5

2014-03-07, 22:16	#9
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	22...f6 23.exf6 Rxf6 24.Re1 bxc3 25.bxc3 e5 26.d5 Nd8

2014-03-08, 00:46	#10
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 6B6₁₆ Posts	Looking further at Paul's Bd7 line: 22...Bd7 23.Ne3 g5 24.Nxc4 f6 25.Nd6+ Kd8 26.Nb7+ Kc7 27.Nxd7 kxd7 28.Nc5+ Ke8 29.Nxe6 and our rook and bishop are forked. Bd7 is not my preferred move since it congests our pieces even more. Looking at David's f6 line: 22...f6 23.exf6 Rxf6 24.Rxf6 Bxf6 (assuming they take the rook exchange) 25.Ne4 Bg7 26.Nd3 bxc3 27.bxc3 e5 28.dxe5 Nxe5 29.Nd4+ Kf8 and we have two bishops and a knight vs. their two knights and a bishop, and pawns are even.