Move 14

paulunderwood · 2013-11-08, 19:50

What weaknesses does 14...a5 have for us? It prevents White's bishop taking it on a3 later on. :smile:

paulunderwood · 2013-11-08, 20:40

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;358777]What weaknesses does 14...a5 have for us? It prevents White's bishop taking it on a3 later on. :smile:[/QUOTE]

Doh! I meant a7.

Brian-E · 2013-11-09, 11:19

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;358777]What weaknesses does 14...a5 have for us? It prevents White's bishop taking it on a3 later on. :smile:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;358780]Doh! I meant a7.[/QUOTE]
My initial reaction is that ...a5 is a good move in general, keeping the option open of following up with ...a4 as an alternative to ...b4. Very importantly, it also prevents their move b4 which they are possibly threatening (if we take twice on b4 in reply they take on a7). However, they are also threatening to play d4. If we leave them to their devices on that, they can follow it up with e5 creating a pawn wedge which could cramp us. (It could also weaken their white squares though. It's double-edged.)

We could play 14...e5 to counter this latter plan of theirs. The plus side of the move is that it fixes their e pawn on e4 where it can be a weakness if we undermine its defence by playing ...c4 later. The down side is that they can reply 15.b4. And that's a serious down side.

Perhaps we need to decide whether it's more important to prevent them playing b4 or to prevent them playing d4. At the moment I'm not at all sure.

Brian-E · 2013-11-09, 16:52

After some more thinking since my previous post, I'm more concerned about preventing White's move b4 than worrying about their move d4 with a central pawn wedge on the dark squares, against which I think we have good counterplay. So I currently like 14...a5.

henryzz · 2013-11-11, 21:01

I agree that a5 is a good move. I think we could look at castling soon

richs · 2013-11-11, 22:45

I like a5 also. Here's a line where we clean house:

14. ... a5
15. e5 dxe5
16. fxe5 Nxe5
17. Nxe5 Bxe5
18. Bxc5 Bxg2
19. Kxg2 Nd5

Brian-E · 2013-11-12, 09:19

14...a5 is still my choice too. I'd be ready to play it now, but are some of us still undecided or considering other moves?

paulunderwood · 2013-11-12, 13:22

I am happy with 14...a5. :smile:

richs · 2013-11-12, 15:18

We still have three days. Any thoughts on the line I posted? I think we end up with positional advantage although we are even on material.

paulunderwood · 2013-11-12, 19:31

[QUOTE=richs;359090]We still have three days. Any thoughts on the line I posted? I think we end up with positional advantage although we are even on material.[/QUOTE]

The line seems fair and certainly opens up the files for the rooks.

One line I thought of is:
14...a5
15. d4 c4
16. e5 d5
which has the opposite effect, bogging down play :smile:

Brian-E · 2013-11-13, 10:21

My general opinions after reading the lines suggested by Rich and Paul:

[LIST=1][*]If we allow them to play Be3xc5 before we have castled, developing our king's rook will be awkward.[*]I like our move ...c4 in many lines where they construct a pawn wedge with pawns on d4 and e5, but I see no reason to completely close the position with ...d5 as well. The d-file, if opened, is to our advantage because our rooks can get in quicker than theirs (thanks to their silly knight on d1), and the d5 square is an excellent one for our knight if we don't occupy it with our own pawn.[/LIST]This is all still to come, though. For now, are there any moves other than 14...a5 which we should be considering while there is still time to do so?

2013-11-08, 19:50	#1
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	Move 14 What weaknesses does 14...a5 have for us? It prevents White's bishop taking it on a3 later on. :smile:

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2013-11-08, 20:40	#2
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;358777]What weaknesses does 14...a5 have for us? It prevents White's bishop taking it on a3 later on. :smile:[/QUOTE] Doh! I meant a7.

2013-11-09, 11:19	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;358777]What weaknesses does 14...a5 have for us? It prevents White's bishop taking it on a3 later on. :smile:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=paulunderwood;358780]Doh! I meant a7.[/QUOTE] My initial reaction is that ...a5 is a good move in general, keeping the option open of following up with ...a4 as an alternative to ...b4. Very importantly, it also prevents their move b4 which they are possibly threatening (if we take twice on b4 in reply they take on a7). However, they are also threatening to play d4. If we leave them to their devices on that, they can follow it up with e5 creating a pawn wedge which could cramp us. (It could also weaken their white squares though. It's double-edged.) We could play 14...e5 to counter this latter plan of theirs. The plus side of the move is that it fixes their e pawn on e4 where it can be a weakness if we undermine its defence by playing ...c4 later. The down side is that they can reply 15.b4. And that's a serious down side. Perhaps we need to decide whether it's more important to prevent them playing b4 or to prevent them playing d4. At the moment I'm not at all sure.

2013-11-09, 16:52	#4
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	After some more thinking since my previous post, I'm more concerned about preventing White's move b4 than worrying about their move d4 with a central pawn wedge on the dark squares, against which I think we have good counterplay. So I currently like 14...a5.

2013-11-11, 21:01	#5
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 1011111111101₂ Posts	I agree that a5 is a good move. I think we could look at castling soon

2013-11-11, 22:45	#6
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	I like a5 also. Here's a line where we clean house: 14. ... a5 15. e5 dxe5 16. fxe5 Nxe5 17. Nxe5 Bxe5 18. Bxc5 Bxg2 19. Kxg2 Nd5

2013-11-12, 09:19	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	14...a5 is still my choice too. I'd be ready to play it now, but are some of us still undecided or considering other moves?

2013-11-12, 13:22	#8
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	I am happy with 14...a5. :smile:

2013-11-12, 15:18	#9
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	We still have three days. Any thoughts on the line I posted? I think we end up with positional advantage although we are even on material.

2013-11-12, 19:31	#10
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	[QUOTE=richs;359090]We still have three days. Any thoughts on the line I posted? I think we end up with positional advantage although we are even on material.[/QUOTE] The line seems fair and certainly opens up the files for the rooks. One line I thought of is: 14...a5 15. d4 c4 16. e5 d5 which has the opposite effect, bogging down play :smile:

2013-11-13, 10:21	#11
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	My general opinions after reading the lines suggested by Rich and Paul: [LIST=1][]If we allow them to play Be3xc5 before we have castled, developing our king's rook will be awkward.[]I like our move ...c4 in many lines where they construct a pawn wedge with pawns on d4 and e5, but I see no reason to completely close the position with ...d5 as well. The d-file, if opened, is to our advantage because our rooks can get in quicker than theirs (thanks to their silly knight on d1), and the d5 square is an excellent one for our knight if we don't occupy it with our own pawn.[/LIST]This is all still to come, though. For now, are there any moves other than 14...a5 which we should be considering while there is still time to do so?