White 10

LaurV · 2013-09-30, 05:50

They played the best they could do, on the queen's flank. I was thinking a lot how we can save that side, and still keep the king's flank on sight, and the only move coming to my mind is Nf3.... (you know, i don't have many ideas, but they are fixed... :razz:)

We could exchange the queens, and most probably go for a draw in that case, well, we (or them!) might get lucky, as it is a lot to go till the end of the game... Honestly I like to keep the queen. Nf3 helps in case THEY want to exchange it (it will keep the king able to make the castling and the bishop in e3, put a horse in d2, strengthening the center/queen side, we can make the short castling after, even if they don't want to exchange the queens). Otherwise, we can not live the place, and without Nf3, if they want to exchange, then we must sacrifice either the castling or the position of the bishop (very well placed in e3!) to take their queen in d2. (edit: they might want to exchange to gain time, too, as we will be forced to capture, so they get another free week to debate the position).

Any other move seems bad on queen side, we lost the war there, so let them make the first blood, and maybe we can lay a trap? I was looking a bit to Rb1, quite interesting move, but again, too defensive. They have that rook behind too...

Any better idea?

(cheesehead, welcome back! honestly we were waiting for you here, hehe, that's it why nobody dared to open this topic till now :P).

WMHalsdorf · 2013-09-30, 11:37

I haven't come up with a good reply to b5 if we move the knight on g1 to either f3 or e2, as for the line Qxa5 Nxa5 Ne2 Black's queenside pieces are not well placed for either attacking or defending giving us extra time, wether this can be exploited for a win requires more time than we have.

cheesehead · 2013-10-01, 05:41

[I]It seems to me that 9 ... Qa5 was a mistake from which we can benefit![/I]

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;354587]I haven't come up with a good reply to b5[/QUOTE]I presume you mean ... b4. (See below for my answer to ... b4.)

[quote]as for the line Qxa5 Nxa5 Ne2 Black's queenside pieces are not well placed for either attacking or defending giving us extra time, wether this can be exploited for a win requires more time than we have.[/quote]I like 10 Qxa5 Nxa5 [B]11 Bd2[/B] ... gaining a tempo (one way or another) while clearing e3 for the Nd1 eventually after the a1-a2-b1-b2 situation is firmed up.

If then 11 ... b4 12 axb4 Nc6 13 bxc5 we'll have a tempo for Ra2 while worrying Black on the half-open a-file.

- - -

My ranking:

10 Qxa5 - - 5
10 any other - - 1

- - -

Don't forget possible c3 to deny (or in response to) ... Nd4 when appropriate.

LaurV · 2013-10-01, 13:51

So, you both suggest exchanging the queens.... I have nothing against it this time. :razz:

Exchanging the queens is a very interesting move indeed. I think however (and I already said) that this move it is going fast to a draw. I have to agree that it is the "safest" way to play, their queen so advanced can do a lot of damage if we have any small "hesitation" in the following moves.

Of course 11..b4 would be a terrible mistake from black, in this situation, they are not stupid... White gets two pawns for free, or a pawn and big advantage in the center after 12.ab4 Nc6 13.bxc5 Nd4 (...dxc5 is worse for black after 14.Bc3). The queen flank is lost for black, and in fact black will lose the game...

Therefore, 11...Nc6 is forced, after 11.Bd2. Now, we have the tempo (the "sente") but nothing to do with it, except some highly defensive move like Rb1, or somehow risky Bc3. In this position even 12.f4 seems better (more aggressive), but both white and black positions are very difficult to penetrate. One of us might get lucky. Black has the two advanced pawns, his best strategy would be to protect them. Don't forget that we won the first game (as black) due to an advanced pawn which kept white "in sight".

Better would be, after exchanging the queens, getting out that freaking horse (as opposite of moving 11.Bd2). Now, the balance moved more on the queen's flank, with the black horse on a5, therefore 11.Ne2 seems better than Nf3, and we might want to push f4 in the future... Actually here is confuse, I have no idea which one is really better. We might want something defensive, like 11.Rb1, to defend the b column, as THAT would be the column where the big battle will be in this game, if we exchange the queens. Actually, 11.Rb1 may be the best move there, taking the rook out of the link and letting us push b2-b4, a very strong push!

So, generally, I like exchanging the queens now. It is 11.Bd2 what I don't like, after.

My vote:

[B]Nf3 - 5 points [/B](if we don't do it now, then it would be too late. However I agree that even now, the only goal is to capture the queen in d2 in case black decides to exchange. I would like to keep the queens for now).
[B]
Qxa5 - 4 points[/B] - this is the safest way, and if we are not missing anything, we have at least a draw there (again, my optimism...)

[B]Ne2, Rb1 - 2 points[/B] - the worst part here is that we may need to capture with the king and waste the castling, if he takes the queen in d2 (capturing with the bishop is worse, we lose the center), but this is not so bad, we could then easily connect the rooks, and exit with the horse in c3 too (it would have one more defense, by the king, hehe), the king is centered and still difficult to attack. We don't do bad in this position.

[B]f4, Rc1 - 1 point[/B] - as I mentioned f4, this move seems to be a very strong move after we exchange the queens, but it is too early for it right now. Rc1 is an intriguing move (sorry for giving more than 5 options, but Rc1 is intriguing indeed!): we take column c for us definitively, but we give them the column b, also definitively (in both cases: they exchange the queen in d2 or push b5-b4).

What the hack will result from here, let's live and see...

WMHalsdorf · 2013-10-01, 23:57

10 Qxa5 - - 5
10 any other - - 1

LaurV · 2013-10-02, 05:49

Ok, as BB opted out (we still have to make this public! and maybe, request a new player? What should be the best to do it?) and it is clear that the remaining three of us want to exchange the queens, more or less :smile:, then I will post this move. We get now time to think to move 11, as we already know their move.

2013-09-30, 05:50	#1
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	White 10 They played the best they could do, on the queen's flank. I was thinking a lot how we can save that side, and still keep the king's flank on sight, and the only move coming to my mind is Nf3.... (you know, i don't have many ideas, but they are fixed... :razz:) We could exchange the queens, and most probably go for a draw in that case, well, we (or them!) might get lucky, as it is a lot to go till the end of the game... Honestly I like to keep the queen. Nf3 helps in case THEY want to exchange it (it will keep the king able to make the castling and the bishop in e3, put a horse in d2, strengthening the center/queen side, we can make the short castling after, even if they don't want to exchange the queens). Otherwise, we can not live the place, and without Nf3, if they want to exchange, then we must sacrifice either the castling or the position of the bishop (very well placed in e3!) to take their queen in d2. (edit: they might want to exchange to gain time, too, as we will be forced to capture, so they get another free week to debate the position). Any other move seems bad on queen side, we lost the war there, so let them make the first blood, and maybe we can lay a trap? I was looking a bit to Rb1, quite interesting move, but again, too defensive. They have that rook behind too... Any better idea? (cheesehead, welcome back! honestly we were waiting for you here, hehe, that's it why nobody dared to open this topic till now :P). Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-09-30 at 05:59

2013-10-01, 05:41	#3
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²×3×641 Posts	[I]It seems to me that 9 ... Qa5 was a mistake from which we can benefit![/I] [QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;354587]I haven't come up with a good reply to b5[/QUOTE]I presume you mean ... b4. (See below for my answer to ... b4.) [quote]as for the line Qxa5 Nxa5 Ne2 Black's queenside pieces are not well placed for either attacking or defending giving us extra time, wether this can be exploited for a win requires more time than we have.[/quote]I like 10 Qxa5 Nxa5 [B]11 Bd2[/B] ... gaining a tempo (one way or another) while clearing e3 for the Nd1 eventually after the a1-a2-b1-b2 situation is firmed up. If then 11 ... b4 12 axb4 Nc6 13 bxc5 we'll have a tempo for Ra2 while worrying Black on the half-open a-file. - - - My ranking: 10 Qxa5 - - 5 10 any other - - 1 - - - Don't forget possible c3 to deny (or in response to) ... Nd4 when appropriate. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-10-01 at 06:40

2013-10-01, 13:51	#4
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10100000110011₂ Posts	So, you both suggest exchanging the queens.... I have nothing against it this time. :razz: Exchanging the queens is a very interesting move indeed. I think however (and I already said) that this move it is going fast to a draw. I have to agree that it is the "safest" way to play, their queen so advanced can do a lot of damage if we have any small "hesitation" in the following moves. Of course 11..b4 would be a terrible mistake from black, in this situation, they are not stupid... White gets two pawns for free, or a pawn and big advantage in the center after 12.ab4 Nc6 13.bxc5 Nd4 (...dxc5 is worse for black after 14.Bc3). The queen flank is lost for black, and in fact black will lose the game... Therefore, 11...Nc6 is forced, after 11.Bd2. Now, we have the tempo (the "sente") but nothing to do with it, except some highly defensive move like Rb1, or somehow risky Bc3. In this position even 12.f4 seems better (more aggressive), but both white and black positions are very difficult to penetrate. One of us might get lucky. Black has the two advanced pawns, his best strategy would be to protect them. Don't forget that we won the first game (as black) due to an advanced pawn which kept white "in sight". Better would be, after exchanging the queens, getting out that freaking horse (as opposite of moving 11.Bd2). Now, the balance moved more on the queen's flank, with the black horse on a5, therefore 11.Ne2 seems better than Nf3, and we might want to push f4 in the future... Actually here is confuse, I have no idea which one is really better. We might want something defensive, like 11.Rb1, to defend the b column, as THAT would be the column where the big battle will be in this game, if we exchange the queens. Actually, 11.Rb1 may be the best move there, taking the rook out of the link and letting us push b2-b4, a very strong push! So, generally, I like exchanging the queens now. It is 11.Bd2 what I don't like, after. My vote: [B]Nf3 - 5 points [/B](if we don't do it now, then it would be too late. However I agree that even now, the only goal is to capture the queen in d2 in case black decides to exchange. I would like to keep the queens for now). [B] Qxa5 - 4 points[/B] - this is the safest way, and if we are not missing anything, we have at least a draw there (again, my optimism...) [B]Ne2, Rb1 - 2 points[/B] - the worst part here is that we may need to capture with the king and waste the castling, if he takes the queen in d2 (capturing with the bishop is worse, we lose the center), but this is not so bad, we could then easily connect the rooks, and exit with the horse in c3 too (it would have one more defense, by the king, hehe), the king is centered and still difficult to attack. We don't do bad in this position. [B]f4, Rc1 - 1 point[/B] - as I mentioned f4, this move seems to be a very strong move after we exchange the queens, but it is too early for it right now. Rc1 is an intriguing move (sorry for giving more than 5 options, but Rc1 is intriguing indeed!): we take column c for us definitively, but we give them the column b, also definitively (in both cases: they exchange the queen in d2 or push b5-b4). What the hack will result from here, let's live and see... Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-10-01 at 14:07

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2013-09-30, 11:37	#2
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 201₁₆ Posts	I haven't come up with a good reply to b5 if we move the knight on g1 to either f3 or e2, as for the line Qxa5 Nxa5 Ne2 Black's queenside pieces are not well placed for either attacking or defending giving us extra time, wether this can be exploited for a win requires more time than we have.

2013-10-01, 23:57	#5
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	10 Qxa5 - - 5 10 any other - - 1

2013-10-02, 05:49	#6
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	Ok, as BB opted out (we still have to make this public! and maybe, request a new player? What should be the best to do it?) and it is clear that the remaining three of us want to exchange the queens, more or less :smile:, then I will post this move. We get now time to think to move 11, as we already know their move.