Move 9 - Page 2

Brian-E · 2013-09-22, 06:33

Thanks, Rich. We do indeed have plenty of time. And, stating the obvious, since there are certainly multiple adequate moves in our position we can of course simply go for a vote when the time comes if we have no consensus by then.

henryzz · 2013-09-22, 23:36

[QUOTE=Brian-E;353713](after 9...Nge7 10.Bh6 Bxh6 11.Qxh6 Qa5+ 12.Kf1 Nd4 13.Ne3)
Of course 13...Qd2? is a crummy move. I was demonstrating that White had effectively [I]prevented[/I] our queen invasion on d2. After 13...Qa4 14.b3 what would you intend to do about their coming Qg7 followed by Qxh7, David?
[/QUOTE]
The position isn't great for us defensively I agree but we are in a position to mount a counter attack if he does Qg7 and Qxh7.
14...Qa5 15. Qg7 Rg8 16. Qxh7 Qc3 17. Ra2 c4 18. dxc4 bxc4 19. b4 a5
I would reckon that he is in just as precarious position if not worse.

I might be beating a dead horse here as although this leads to a reasonable position it is likely that there is something I haven't noticed that will lead to a better position. Unfortunately I have a bad habit of playing devil's advocate.

Brian-E · 2013-09-23, 17:46

[QUOTE=henryzz;353840]The position isn't great for us defensively I agree but we are in a position to mount a counter attack if he does Qg7 and Qxh7.
14...Qa5 15. Qg7 Rg8 16. Qxh7 Qc3 17. Ra2 c4 18. dxc4 bxc4 19. b4 a5
I would reckon that he is in just as precarious position if not worse.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I overlooked our possibility of bringing our queen to c3 here.
Okay, is (9...Nge7 10.Bh6 Bxh6 11.Qxh6 Qa5+ 12.Kf1 Nd4 13.Ne3 Qa4) [U]14.Rc1[/U] a better move than my earlier 14.b3? Haven't they then effectively neutralised our threats ready to play Qg7 and Qxh7?

As I think I remember you once saying in our earlier game, by the way, playing devil's advocate is a good way of discussing the position as a team, so it's not a bad habit.

Brian-E · 2013-09-24, 15:52

Because we now have only about 48 hours before the absolute deadline for our move, how about all four of us writing down our current favourite move so that David has something to go on when the time comes to make our move?

Of course this does not detract from further discussion, and any of us can change our "vote" later before David makes our move.

My current vote (highly susceptible to being changed in the light of further discussion) is:

9...Qa5.

paulunderwood · 2013-09-24, 17:04

I vote for 9...Qa5 too, hoping the pressure on White will make them move badly :smile:

richs · 2013-09-24, 22:51

I took a look at the Qa5 line where white exchanges queens:

9. ... Qa5
10. Qxa5 Nxa5
11. Nf3 Ne7
12. O-O O-O
13. e5 Nf5

and we have the advantage.

richs · 2013-09-24, 23:21

And looking at a variation of your c3 (queen exchange declined) line:

9. ... Qa5
10. c3 Nf6 (prepping for castling and exerting center control)
11. Ne2 O-O
12. O-O Ng4

and then either white allows the bishop to be exchanged for our knight, or they move the bishop and we chase it with pawns.

Either way we are in a good position.

richs · 2013-09-24, 23:24

And I'll post my opinion as we get closer to the deadline. So David, what's your preference since Brian and Paul like Qa5?

Brian-E · 2013-09-25, 08:09

[QUOTE=richs;354057]And looking at a variation of your c3 (queen exchange declined) line:

9. ... Qa5
10. c3 Nf6 (prepping for castling and exerting center control)
11. Ne2 O-O
12. O-O Ng4

and then either white allows the bishop to be exchanged for our knight, or they move the bishop and we chase it with pawns.

Either way we are in a good position.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your analysis Rich.

Just to comment on this second line you give: perhaps I'm quibbling pointlessly if you like the move 9...Qa5 too, but in this line I'm not sure that there's any point in having moved our queen to a5. They can play 11.Bh6 and your neat trick taking the sting out of this move before no longer works because our queen can't come to f6. We probably have to reply 11...O-O and I think they are better (may start a dangerous attack) after 12.Bxg7 Kxg7. Without our g7 bishop, our queenside counterplay is much reduced.

So I think 9...Qa5 needs to be combined with the later move ...b4 if they don't swap queens.

henryzz · 2013-09-25, 15:45

Qa5 looks like a good move. We all seem to agree on that so I will post that tomorrow morning(afternoon doesn't work for me) unless there is a negative responce.
It would be nice to continue discussing the position while waiting for them. I can't help thinking we waste a lot of time while it's their move.

If they don't exchange I agree that b4 looks like a good option.

paulunderwood · 2013-09-25, 16:11

One scenario is:

9...Qa5
10. c3 b4
11. c3xb4 Nxb4 (theatening check with a pin)

2013-09-25, 15:45	#21
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 13775₈ Posts	Qa5 looks like a good move. We all seem to agree on that so I will post that tomorrow morning(afternoon doesn't work for me) unless there is a negative responce. It would be nice to continue discussing the position while waiting for them. I can't help thinking we waste a lot of time while it's their move. If they don't exchange I agree that b4 looks like a good option. Last fiddled with by henryzz on 2013-09-25 at 15:45

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Stockfish game: "Move 9 poll", not "move 2^74,207,281-1 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	1	2016-10-25 18:03
Stockfish game: "Move 8 poll", not "move 3.14159 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	5	2016-10-22 01:55
Stockfish game: "Move 5 poll", not "move 0 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	0	2016-10-05 15:50
Stockfish game: "Move 4 poll", not "move 100 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	0	2016-09-28 19:51
Stockfish game: "Move 2 poll", not "move 2 discussion"	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	0	2016-09-19 19:56

2013-09-22, 06:33	#12
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Thanks, Rich. We do indeed have plenty of time. And, stating the obvious, since there are certainly multiple adequate moves in our position we can of course simply go for a vote when the time comes if we have no consensus by then.

2013-09-22, 23:36	#13
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;353713](after 9...Nge7 10.Bh6 Bxh6 11.Qxh6 Qa5+ 12.Kf1 Nd4 13.Ne3) Of course 13...Qd2? is a crummy move. I was demonstrating that White had effectively [I]prevented[/I] our queen invasion on d2. After 13...Qa4 14.b3 what would you intend to do about their coming Qg7 followed by Qxh7, David? [/QUOTE] The position isn't great for us defensively I agree but we are in a position to mount a counter attack if he does Qg7 and Qxh7. 14...Qa5 15. Qg7 Rg8 16. Qxh7 Qc3 17. Ra2 c4 18. dxc4 bxc4 19. b4 a5 I would reckon that he is in just as precarious position if not worse. I might be beating a dead horse here as although this leads to a reasonable position it is likely that there is something I haven't noticed that will lead to a better position. Unfortunately I have a bad habit of playing devil's advocate.

2013-09-23, 17:46	#14
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;353840]The position isn't great for us defensively I agree but we are in a position to mount a counter attack if he does Qg7 and Qxh7. 14...Qa5 15. Qg7 Rg8 16. Qxh7 Qc3 17. Ra2 c4 18. dxc4 bxc4 19. b4 a5 I would reckon that he is in just as precarious position if not worse.[/QUOTE] Agreed. I overlooked our possibility of bringing our queen to c3 here. Okay, is (9...Nge7 10.Bh6 Bxh6 11.Qxh6 Qa5+ 12.Kf1 Nd4 13.Ne3 Qa4) [U]14.Rc1[/U] a better move than my earlier 14.b3? Haven't they then effectively neutralised our threats ready to play Qg7 and Qxh7? As I think I remember you once saying in our earlier game, by the way, playing devil's advocate is a good way of discussing the position as a team, so it's not a bad habit.

2013-09-24, 15:52	#15
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Because we now have only about 48 hours before the absolute deadline for our move, how about all four of us writing down our current favourite move so that David has something to go on when the time comes to make our move? Of course this does not detract from further discussion, and any of us can change our "vote" later before David makes our move. My current vote (highly susceptible to being changed in the light of further discussion) is: 9...Qa5.

2013-09-24, 17:04	#16
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 124D₁₆ Posts	I vote for 9...Qa5 too, hoping the pressure on White will make them move badly :smile:

2013-09-24, 22:51	#17
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	I took a look at the Qa5 line where white exchanges queens: 9. ... Qa5 10. Qxa5 Nxa5 11. Nf3 Ne7 12. O-O O-O 13. e5 Nf5 and we have the advantage.

2013-09-24, 23:21	#18
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	And looking at a variation of your c3 (queen exchange declined) line: 9. ... Qa5 10. c3 Nf6 (prepping for castling and exerting center control) 11. Ne2 O-O 12. O-O Ng4 and then either white allows the bishop to be exchanged for our knight, or they move the bishop and we chase it with pawns. Either way we are in a good position.

2013-09-24, 23:24	#19
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 11010110110₂ Posts	And I'll post my opinion as we get closer to the deadline. So David, what's your preference since Brian and Paul like Qa5?

2013-09-25, 08:09	#20
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;354057]And looking at a variation of your c3 (queen exchange declined) line: 9. ... Qa5 10. c3 Nf6 (prepping for castling and exerting center control) 11. Ne2 O-O 12. O-O Ng4 and then either white allows the bishop to be exchanged for our knight, or they move the bishop and we chase it with pawns. Either way we are in a good position.[/QUOTE] Thanks for your analysis Rich. Just to comment on this second line you give: perhaps I'm quibbling pointlessly if you like the move 9...Qa5 too, but in this line I'm not sure that there's any point in having moved our queen to a5. They can play 11.Bh6 and your neat trick taking the sting out of this move before no longer works because our queen can't come to f6. We probably have to reply 11...O-O and I think they are better (may start a dangerous attack) after 12.Bxg7 Kxg7. Without our g7 bishop, our queenside counterplay is much reduced. So I think 9...Qa5 needs to be combined with the later move ...b4 if they don't swap queens.

2013-09-25, 16:11	#22
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	One scenario is: 9...Qa5 10. c3 b4 11. c3xb4 Nxb4 (theatening check with a pin)