Mersenne Rig

simon389 · 2013-08-28, 07:21

Hi friends,
I am really excited to be here today. I computed Mersenne numbers in 2001 as a freshmen in college, and with the mild success of my recent startup I'm really excited to get crunching again. I have a PRIME95 poster up in my hallway :)

Here is my current order on NewEgg
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150
Mobo: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
Cooler: CORSAIR Hydro series H50 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
PSU: Rosewill FORTRESS-450 450W 80 Plus Platinum

Questions:
Is Linux or Windows better? 32-bit or 64-bit? I plan on overclocking the CPU and running it headless. Does anybody have any experience with setting up a headless 64-bit linux install of Prime95? Is it stable to run off CD or USBdrive, or do you suggest an actual HDD?

Looking forward,
Simon

Manpowre · 2013-08-28, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon389

Hi friends,
I am really excited to be here today. I computed Mersenne numbers in 2001 as a freshmen in college, and with the mild success of my recent startup I'm really excited to get crunching again. I have a PRIME95 poster up in my hallway :)

Here is my current order on NewEgg
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150
Mobo: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
Cooler: CORSAIR Hydro series H50 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
PSU: Rosewill FORTRESS-450 450W 80 Plus Platinum

Questions:
Is Linux or Windows better? 32-bit or 64-bit? I plan on overclocking the CPU and running it headless. Does anybody have any experience with setting up a headless 64-bit linux install of Prime95? Is it stable to run off CD or USBdrive, or do you suggest an actual HDD?

Looking forward,
Simon

Hi Simon, welcome back,

As you probably can understand there has been great improvements to several software groups within the Mersenne project.
* Haswell introduces new instruction set which boosts the iteration time tremendously.
* CudaLucas has improved for GPU computing, and can LL check a prime in days, rather in a month with normal CPUs.

Your rig is Haswell, great CPU, I have considered it myself, just I dont have GPU ready for it yet, so I am considering the Nvidia Titan Ultra when it comes out with 2 GPU cores per card..

But for low cost LL testing, your platform is great.

I would run with HD, just get a 250gb harddrive as then you can experiment with GPU computing too if you get hold of a used Nvidia GTX 590 card (2x gpus on that card). also cheap second hand now.

Whats fun with Mersenne project is that you can take different hardware platforms and test out different pieces of software:
* Prime 95 with different CPUs - overclocking etc..
* CudaLucas with Nvidia GPU's 5xx,6xx,7xx series and their benefits.
* MfaktC for Nvidia GPU's - Trial factoring for lower end cards Nvidia 64-660 etc..
* MfaktO for ATI/AMD cards which BDOT did a great improvement during spring and summer.. basically a 6970 card can get 230 ghz days per day just trial factoring now.
* P-1 project (Havent done this myself yet.)
* GPUto72 project - GPU does trial factoring to higher bit levels.. fun project.

Linux or Windows, well, if you choose to spend time with GPU's and overclocking those, Windows is the best as you can download EVGA Precision to do this.

If you choose only to stay with CPU work, then Linux will have you get into more fun as it is a technically more advanced platform than Windows..

You are probably going to have fun with your platform, just try to get hold of some Nvidia graphics card. The 580 or 590 would be cheap and great second hand.

henryzz · 2013-08-28, 10:15

That pc will be rather memory bound. I would suggest DDR3-2133 or even better DDR3-2400. Basically because of the new instructions the cpu maxes out the memory bandwidth. There won't be much of a difference running 1 core but as far as I know DDR3-1600 won't be able to support much more than 2 cores worth of throughput(maybe 2.5. I don't own this sort of hardware).

ET_ · 2013-08-28, 11:32

Did you plan to run with only 2 GB of RAM? I guess not, as you asked for DDR3, but that is not clear from the contest.

Also, if you plan to add a GPU, you should buy a more powerful PSU.

Luigi

kracker · 2013-08-28, 14:35

I would make a few suggestions, but let me ask you two things:

~~Do you plan to overclock?~~ :facepalm: Sorry, just read it.
Do you plan to have a GPU(in the future)?

EDIT: henryzz: My Dual IB is really memory-bottlenecked by one 1600 4 GB.

danaj · 2013-08-28, 16:16

I will admit I do not do a lot of prime95 work, but I have built quite a few computers. People talk about memory bandwidth being an issue (e.g. many of the posts above as well as elsewhere on the forum), and the LGA 2011 with quad-channel has a lot more memory bandwidth than the LGA 1155 or LGA 1150. I have a 3930K and a 3770K and the 3930K is definitely a better choice for maximizing computation. Admittedly it costs more and the 3770K is a nice CPU, but I think the extra 2 cores + double the memory bandwidth makes it significantly faster and better able to take advantage of hyperthreading for some apps (because of less memory contention).

Manpowre brings up some new instructions in Haswell, which means waiting for the 4930K launching next month would be advisable if you wanted to go the LGA2011 route.

The 4770K is fine, it's cheaper overall than LGA2011 MB + 4930K, it uses less power, you only need 2 sticks of RAM instead of 4, and if most of the work is done via GPU then the difference may not matter. For the GPU work I suspect number theory apps have a lot less GPU<->host memory bottlenecks than the fluid dynamics I was doing.

PSU: I won't buy anything but Seasonic any more. Quality, quiet, efficient. Not cheap though -- I usually wait for a Newegg sale. I'd get a Seasonic SS-660XP2 personally even at $120 vs. $90 (the extra power capacity would also be nice for a GPU). Read some reviews. If you were dreaming of a Titan Ultra you might even want to go a little higher (e.g. Seasonic 760XP2, albeit pricy at $145). I occasionally got suckered into trying cheap stuff because of great newegg sales, and have regretted most of them afterwards (one of them is still working fine, but it's so freaking loud it has to be in another room -- if it wasn't in a server I'd have trashed it).

I'm fairly happy with the Corsair H100 coolers I'm running on two of my machines. The H50 is only half of those, but it may depend on how much you want to overclock, and of course the 4770K dissipates less heat than the 3930K.

I'll join everyone else in thinking you might want faster memory. 8GB minimum these days. (I can't help but bring up LGA 2011 again for everyone who is pointing out faster memory and doesn't know about the quad channel memory it has).

Personally I'd get a hard drive. I used a USB for a little Pogobox once and it was horrendously slow. I've run a machine off a CD, and I suppose you could mount a network drive, but it wouldn't be my choice even for a headless server. Admittedly as I upgrade hard drives in my machines I always have a growing pile of old ones to use for small projects. Buying new, sadly almost everything ends up being between $60 and $130 so there isn't a lot of savings by getting a small or slow drive vs. a decent 1TB one. OTOH there are some deals like $33 for a refurbished 500GB drive (vs. brand new 500GB for $60 or 1TB for $70).

kracker · 2013-08-28, 16:41

4930K will be Ivy Bridge, not Haswell. Intel has some confusing naming methods.

Prime95 · 2013-08-28, 17:03

Prime95 cannot use hyperthreading, save a little money and get a CPU without hyperthreading. It should also run a little cooler.

Two sticks of at least DDR3-2400 is a must. Prime95 will still be bandwidth limited at that speed.

You might want to read through the "Haswell benchmark" thread.

simon389 · 2013-08-28, 17:51

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the general consensus is better RAM and PSU. Can you link to a few NewEgg pages for me to order?

Can my mobo use DDR3-2400 Ram?

I'm not going to crunch with the GPU, CPU only. Influenced by this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1212493/f...o-folding-24-7

Trying to keep the power bill as low as possible. Planning on going headless linux CPU only, though I am open to being convinced :D

simon389 · 2013-08-28, 17:56

Oh, and I am totally fine with waiting till the new Ivy Bridge launches.

danaj · 2013-08-28, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracker

4930K will be Ivy Bridge, not Haswell. Intel has some confusing naming methods.

Gah, you're right. No AVX2 or FMA3. Haswell-E in 2014 :(.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prime95

Prime95 cannot use hyperthreading, save a little money and get a CPU without hyperthreading. It should also run a little cooler.

Only if prime95 is the only app you ever intend to run. The 3930K would give you an extra 2 cores and double the memory bandwidth, but that would probably be outweighed by the missing Haswell new instructions for those apps that use them.

2013-08-28, 07:21	#1
simon389 Aug 2013 3·29 Posts	Mersenne Rig Hi friends, I am really excited to be here today. I computed Mersenne numbers in 2001 as a freshmen in college, and with the mild success of my recent startup I'm really excited to get crunching again. I have a PRIME95 poster up in my hallway :) Here is my current order on NewEgg CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 Mobo: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Cooler: CORSAIR Hydro series H50 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler PSU: Rosewill FORTRESS-450 450W 80 Plus Platinum Questions: Is Linux or Windows better? 32-bit or 64-bit? I plan on overclocking the CPU and running it headless. Does anybody have any experience with setting up a headless 64-bit linux install of Prime95? Is it stable to run off CD or USBdrive, or do you suggest an actual HDD? Looking forward, Simon

2013-08-28, 14:35	#5
kracker "Mr. Meeseeks" Jan 2012 California, USA 2³·271 Posts	I would make a few suggestions, but let me ask you two things: ~~Do you plan to overclock?~~ :facepalm: Sorry, just read it. Do you plan to have a GPU(in the future)? EDIT: henryzz: My Dual IB is really memory-bottlenecked by one 1600 4 GB. Last fiddled with by kracker on 2013-08-28 at 14:37

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2013-08-28, 10:15	#3
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Cambridge (GMT/BST) 7·29² Posts	That pc will be rather memory bound. I would suggest DDR3-2133 or even better DDR3-2400. Basically because of the new instructions the cpu maxes out the memory bandwidth. There won't be much of a difference running 1 core but as far as I know DDR3-1600 won't be able to support much more than 2 cores worth of throughput(maybe 2.5. I don't own this sort of hardware).

2013-08-28, 11:32	#4
ET_ Banned "Luigi" Aug 2002 Team Italia 4819₁₀ Posts	Did you plan to run with only 2 GB of RAM? I guess not, as you asked for DDR3, but that is not clear from the contest. Also, if you plan to add a GPU, you should buy a more powerful PSU. Luigi

2013-08-28, 16:16	#6
danaj "Dana Jacobsen" Feb 2011 Bangkok, TH 2²·227 Posts	I will admit I do not do a lot of prime95 work, but I have built quite a few computers. People talk about memory bandwidth being an issue (e.g. many of the posts above as well as elsewhere on the forum), and the LGA 2011 with quad-channel has a lot more memory bandwidth than the LGA 1155 or LGA 1150. I have a 3930K and a 3770K and the 3930K is definitely a better choice for maximizing computation. Admittedly it costs more and the 3770K is a nice CPU, but I think the extra 2 cores + double the memory bandwidth makes it significantly faster and better able to take advantage of hyperthreading for some apps (because of less memory contention). Manpowre brings up some new instructions in Haswell, which means waiting for the 4930K launching next month would be advisable if you wanted to go the LGA2011 route. The 4770K is fine, it's cheaper overall than LGA2011 MB + 4930K, it uses less power, you only need 2 sticks of RAM instead of 4, and if most of the work is done via GPU then the difference may not matter. For the GPU work I suspect number theory apps have a lot less GPU<->host memory bottlenecks than the fluid dynamics I was doing. PSU: I won't buy anything but Seasonic any more. Quality, quiet, efficient. Not cheap though -- I usually wait for a Newegg sale. I'd get a Seasonic SS-660XP2 personally even at $120 vs. $90 (the extra power capacity would also be nice for a GPU). Read some reviews. If you were dreaming of a Titan Ultra you might even want to go a little higher (e.g. Seasonic 760XP2, albeit pricy at $145). I occasionally got suckered into trying cheap stuff because of great newegg sales, and have regretted most of them afterwards (one of them is still working fine, but it's so freaking loud it has to be in another room -- if it wasn't in a server I'd have trashed it). I'm fairly happy with the Corsair H100 coolers I'm running on two of my machines. The H50 is only half of those, but it may depend on how much you want to overclock, and of course the 4770K dissipates less heat than the 3930K. I'll join everyone else in thinking you might want faster memory. 8GB minimum these days. (I can't help but bring up LGA 2011 again for everyone who is pointing out faster memory and doesn't know about the quad channel memory it has). Personally I'd get a hard drive. I used a USB for a little Pogobox once and it was horrendously slow. I've run a machine off a CD, and I suppose you could mount a network drive, but it wouldn't be my choice even for a headless server. Admittedly as I upgrade hard drives in my machines I always have a growing pile of old ones to use for small projects. Buying new, sadly almost everything ends up being between $60 and $130 so there isn't a lot of savings by getting a small or slow drive vs. a decent 1TB one. OTOH there are some deals like $33 for a refurbished 500GB drive (vs. brand new 500GB for $60 or 1TB for $70).

2013-08-28, 16:41	#7
kracker "Mr. Meeseeks" Jan 2012 California, USA 4170₈ Posts	4930K will be Ivy Bridge, not Haswell. Intel has some confusing naming methods.

2013-08-28, 17:03	#8
Prime95 P90 years forever! Aug 2002 Yeehaw, FL 19·397 Posts	Prime95 cannot use hyperthreading, save a little money and get a CPU without hyperthreading. It should also run a little cooler. Two sticks of at least DDR3-2400 is a must. Prime95 will still be bandwidth limited at that speed. You might want to read through the "Haswell benchmark" thread.

2013-08-28, 17:51	#9
simon389 Aug 2013 3·29 Posts	So, if I'm reading this correctly, the general consensus is better RAM and PSU. Can you link to a few NewEgg pages for me to order? Can my mobo use DDR3-2400 Ram? I'm not going to crunch with the GPU, CPU only. Influenced by this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1212493/f...o-folding-24-7 Trying to keep the power bill as low as possible. Planning on going headless linux CPU only, though I am open to being convinced :D

2013-08-28, 17:56	#10
simon389 Aug 2013 57₁₆ Posts	Oh, and I am totally fine with waiting till the new Ivy Bridge launches.