White 06

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-26, 01:00

6. Be3 forcing a response of d6 (all other moves are bad for black).

LaurV · 2013-08-26, 12:58

I understand why d6 is a good reply to Be3.
What I don't understand id why the other replies are bad.
I would answer with Qa5 or Qb6, and white horse is some trouble, Nge2 would be forced and I still (as black) can develop my king side (knight, castling). Even 6...b6 seems to be OK. (I don't say is better! but I can't see why is wrong).

On the other hand, black horse in d4 did a lot of damage to white in the former game, therefore Be3 is a good move right now.

I had a look to Bf4 too. This is interesting as a "trap", in case they scare it away by pushing e6-e5, we retreat it in e3 and then they can't forbid our horse in d5 in the future, which would be a really aggressive (and good) move for us.

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-26, 14:16

[QUOTE=LaurV;350908]I understand why d6 is a good reply to Be3.
What I don't understand id why the other replies are bad.
I would answer with Qa5 or Qb6, and white horse is some trouble, Nge2 would be forced and I still (as black) can develop my king side (knight, castling). Even 6...b6 seems to be OK. (I don't say is better! but I can't see why is wrong).

On the other hand, black horse in d4 did a lot of damage to white in the former game, therefore Be3 is a good move right now.

I had a look to Bf4 too. This is interesting as a "trap", in case they scare it away by pushing e6-e5, we retreat it in e3 and then they can't forbid our horse in d5 in the future, which would be a really aggressive (and good) move for us.[/QUOTE]

While the Qa5 and Qb6 look good at first glace the attack peters out because a lack of development on blacks part. The rook on a8 has to move before b6 can be safly played (the knight on c6 could end up being pinned). The move Bf4 will result in black playing e6-e5 which is what black would do at a future time thus allowing them a free move for all practicle purposes.

cheesehead · 2013-08-27, 02:35

I ask for consideration of 6 f4 and 6 Nge2.

LaurV · 2013-08-27, 02:46

I seems like Be3, Nf3, Nge2 and Bf4 are the only reasonable moves we can do. I totally don't like f4, thinking there will be a black horse in d4, then we will exchange a bishop for it and so black puts his bishop in d4, then the pawn in f2 helps a lot to protect the king (castled or not) in g1. Therefore, I always considered f4 a bad move in this stage. I also don't like Nge2, as long as the horse in c3 is not multiple-threatened. I consider right now Nf3 being more aggressive than Nge2. Also, Bf4 is a bit risky, black may not follow with e5.

Therefore, our task now it easy, we have to chose only between Be3 and Nf3 :razz:

For me, any of them is as good as the other. On ChessDB they are kinda equivalent too...

LaurV · 2013-08-27, 02:50

Whoops, crosspost... I totally did not expect that from cheesehead, hehe... I think we need to vote here....

We might need to think to a voting system, say with points, to avoid situations like this, when all members of the team want different moves.

cheesehead · 2013-08-27, 03:00

[QUOTE=LaurV;350980]I seems like Be3, Nf3, Nge2 and Bf4 are the only reasonable moves we can do. I totally don't like f4, thinking there will be a black horse in d4, then we will[/QUOTE]use Nce2 and c3 to make Black help our Ng1 to develop while we strike back at the black squares.

[quote]and so black puts his bishop in d4[/quote]... not after Nce2 and c3 ...

LaurV · 2013-08-27, 04:12

Well, I see your point too.
The fact is that moving f4 is what is facilitates "planting" the horse in d4. We can't take it because then the white king is naked (assuming black plants the bishop there, or the queen in the back). And Nce2... isn't too defensive? We lose the control in the center and he still can change it ant time, assuming he wants to sacrifice the horse in d4 (which most probably he will not, because as Mr. Palliser said, that horse stays very good there, causing a lot of headache for white, which we saw in the former game too).

[B]Say we do a voting scale with points from 1 to 5. A player can indicate [U]NO LESS THAN 3[/U] and [U]NO MORE THAN 5[/U] moves[/B][B] and give a "score" in points for each move, from 1 to 10, not necessarily distinct [/B](i.e. one can indicate 3 moves and give 5 points to each)[B]. We will play the move which accumulates a maximum total score (addition of the points from all players). We may still re-vote (discuss!) the moves with close scores, i.e. the vote is not "definitive", and decide the best move to play. [/B]

What do you think about this? It will avoid (at least partially, I hope) situations like this when we are stuck, each player with a different move. Here is where "no less then 3" come in place, as you MUST indicate another two moves beside your favorite, and give them at least 1 point, so they will "pass" if they are someone's else favorite.

If I am to start:
6.Nf3 - 5 points
6.Be3 - 5 points
6.Nge2 - 2 points
6.Bf4 - 2 points
6.f4 - 1 point

I included f4 because different databases mention it, and because cheesehead considered it, so I decided to give it a chance, but personally I don't like this move. Just to illustrate the voting system, the move still can pass (or other move, not mentioned by me) if for example cheesehead gives 5 points to it, and other players adds 2-3 points to it.

What do you think? (or better proposals, so we don't start fighting? :razz:, at the end, it is just a game... we play for fun, and to learn something new, I already learned a lot of things from the first game!)

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-27, 09:30

6.Be3 - 5 points
6.Nge2 - 5 points
6.Nf3 - 4 points
6.f4 - 2 point
6.Bf4 - 1 points

bsquared · 2013-08-27, 13:27

Be3... 5
Nf3... 4
Nge2... 3
f4... 2
Bf4... 1

I have no analysis to offer, but I like getting the bigger pieces out there where they can see the middle of the board, but not so far so that they are too exposed. This is my child-like view of things.

cheesehead · 2013-08-28, 00:09

[QUOTE=LaurV;350987]
[B]Say we do a voting scale with points from 1 to 5. A player can indicate [U]NO LESS THAN 3[/U] and [U]NO MORE THAN 5[/U] moves[/B][B] and give a "score" in points for each move, from 1 to 10, not necessarily distinct [/B](i.e. one can indicate 3 moves and give 5 points to each)[B]. We will play the move which accumulates a maximum total score (addition of the points from all players). We may still re-vote (discuss!) the moves with close scores, i.e. the vote is not "definitive", and decide the best move to play. [/B]

What do you think about this? It will avoid (at least partially, I hope) situations like this when we are stuck, each player with a different move. Here is where "no less then 3" come in place, as you MUST indicate another two moves beside your favorite, and give them at least 1 point, so they will "pass" if they are someone's else favorite.[/QUOTE]I like it!

6.Be3 - 5 (looks like a sweep for Be3)
6.Nge2 - 2
6.Nh3 - 1
6.f4 - 1

2013-08-26, 01:00	#1
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 513₁₀ Posts	White 06 6. Be3 forcing a response of d6 (all other moves are bad for black).

2013-08-26, 12:58	#2
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	I understand why d6 is a good reply to Be3. What I don't understand id why the other replies are bad. I would answer with Qa5 or Qb6, and white horse is some trouble, Nge2 would be forced and I still (as black) can develop my king side (knight, castling). Even 6...b6 seems to be OK. (I don't say is better! but I can't see why is wrong). On the other hand, black horse in d4 did a lot of damage to white in the former game, therefore Be3 is a good move right now. I had a look to Bf4 too. This is interesting as a "trap", in case they scare it away by pushing e6-e5, we retreat it in e3 and then they can't forbid our horse in d5 in the future, which would be a really aggressive (and good) move for us. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-08-26 at 13:04

2013-08-27, 02:35	#4
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 1E0C₁₆ Posts	I ask for consideration of 6 f4 and 6 Nge2. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-08-27 at 02:53

2013-08-27, 03:00	#7
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²×3×641 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;350980]I seems like Be3, Nf3, Nge2 and Bf4 are the only reasonable moves we can do. I totally don't like f4, thinking there will be a black horse in d4, then we will[/QUOTE]use Nce2 and c3 to make Black help our Ng1 to develop while we strike back at the black squares. [quote]and so black puts his bishop in d4[/quote]... not after Nce2 and c3 ... Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-08-27 at 03:04

2013-08-28, 00:09	#11
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 1111000001100₂ Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;350987] [B]Say we do a voting scale with points from 1 to 5. A player can indicate [U]NO LESS THAN 3[/U] and [U]NO MORE THAN 5[/U] moves[/B][B] and give a "score" in points for each move, from 1 to 10, not necessarily distinct [/B](i.e. one can indicate 3 moves and give 5 points to each)[B]. We will play the move which accumulates a maximum total score (addition of the points from all players). We may still re-vote (discuss!) the moves with close scores, i.e. the vote is not "definitive", and decide the best move to play. [/B] What do you think about this? It will avoid (at least partially, I hope) situations like this when we are stuck, each player with a different move. Here is where "no less then 3" come in place, as you MUST indicate another two moves beside your favorite, and give them at least 1 point, so they will "pass" if they are someone's else favorite.[/QUOTE]I like it! 6.Be3 - 5 (looks like a sweep for Be3) 6.Nge2 - 2 6.Nh3 - 1 6.f4 - 1 Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-08-28 at 00:37

2013-08-26, 14:16	#3
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 513₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;350908]I understand why d6 is a good reply to Be3. What I don't understand id why the other replies are bad. I would answer with Qa5 or Qb6, and white horse is some trouble, Nge2 would be forced and I still (as black) can develop my king side (knight, castling). Even 6...b6 seems to be OK. (I don't say is better! but I can't see why is wrong). On the other hand, black horse in d4 did a lot of damage to white in the former game, therefore Be3 is a good move right now. I had a look to Bf4 too. This is interesting as a "trap", in case they scare it away by pushing e6-e5, we retreat it in e3 and then they can't forbid our horse in d5 in the future, which would be a really aggressive (and good) move for us.[/QUOTE] While the Qa5 and Qb6 look good at first glace the attack peters out because a lack of development on blacks part. The rook on a8 has to move before b6 can be safly played (the knight on c6 could end up being pinned). The move Bf4 will result in black playing e6-e5 which is what black would do at a future time thus allowing them a free move for all practicle purposes.

2013-08-27, 02:46	#5
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10291₁₀ Posts	I seems like Be3, Nf3, Nge2 and Bf4 are the only reasonable moves we can do. I totally don't like f4, thinking there will be a black horse in d4, then we will exchange a bishop for it and so black puts his bishop in d4, then the pawn in f2 helps a lot to protect the king (castled or not) in g1. Therefore, I always considered f4 a bad move in this stage. I also don't like Nge2, as long as the horse in c3 is not multiple-threatened. I consider right now Nf3 being more aggressive than Nge2. Also, Bf4 is a bit risky, black may not follow with e5. Therefore, our task now it easy, we have to chose only between Be3 and Nf3 :razz: For me, any of them is as good as the other. On ChessDB they are kinda equivalent too...

2013-08-27, 02:50	#6
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	Whoops, crosspost... I totally did not expect that from cheesehead, hehe... I think we need to vote here.... We might need to think to a voting system, say with points, to avoid situations like this, when all members of the team want different moves.

2013-08-27, 04:12	#8
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	Well, I see your point too. The fact is that moving f4 is what is facilitates "planting" the horse in d4. We can't take it because then the white king is naked (assuming black plants the bishop there, or the queen in the back). And Nce2... isn't too defensive? We lose the control in the center and he still can change it ant time, assuming he wants to sacrifice the horse in d4 (which most probably he will not, because as Mr. Palliser said, that horse stays very good there, causing a lot of headache for white, which we saw in the former game too). [B]Say we do a voting scale with points from 1 to 5. A player can indicate [U]NO LESS THAN 3[/U] and [U]NO MORE THAN 5[/U] moves[/B][B] and give a "score" in points for each move, from 1 to 10, not necessarily distinct [/B](i.e. one can indicate 3 moves and give 5 points to each)[B]. We will play the move which accumulates a maximum total score (addition of the points from all players). We may still re-vote (discuss!) the moves with close scores, i.e. the vote is not "definitive", and decide the best move to play. [/B] What do you think about this? It will avoid (at least partially, I hope) situations like this when we are stuck, each player with a different move. Here is where "no less then 3" come in place, as you MUST indicate another two moves beside your favorite, and give them at least 1 point, so they will "pass" if they are someone's else favorite. If I am to start: 6.Nf3 - 5 points 6.Be3 - 5 points 6.Nge2 - 2 points 6.Bf4 - 2 points 6.f4 - 1 point I included f4 because different databases mention it, and because cheesehead considered it, so I decided to give it a chance, but personally I don't like this move. Just to illustrate the voting system, the move still can pass (or other move, not mentioned by me) if for example cheesehead gives 5 points to it, and other players adds 2-3 points to it. What do you think? (or better proposals, so we don't start fighting? :razz:, at the end, it is just a game... we play for fun, and to learn something new, I already learned a lot of things from the first game!)

2013-08-27, 09:30	#9
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	6.Be3 - 5 points 6.Nge2 - 5 points 6.Nf3 - 4 points 6.f4 - 2 point 6.Bf4 - 1 points

2013-08-27, 13:27	#10
bsquared "Ben" Feb 2007 3×5×251 Posts	Be3... 5 Nf3... 4 Nge2... 3 f4... 2 Bf4... 1 I have no analysis to offer, but I like getting the bigger pieces out there where they can see the middle of the board, but not so far so that they are too exposed. This is my child-like view of things.

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