White 03

bsquared · 2013-08-05, 15:42

Getting the thread started early because I will be on vacation for the next couple weeks. Not sure what my internet access will be, so feel free to move without hearing from me.

As to the 3rd move, if black continues the closed sicilian with Nc6, then I would probably go with 3. g3. I haven't tried Cheeshead's Grand Prix approach before, but have no problem trying it out if that's what others agree to. I'm here to learn from you all!

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-05, 20:28

An early GPA is fine when playing over the board games which is why I would delay playing it in favor of more development.

cheesehead · 2013-08-06, 14:02

I prefer 3. g3 for strongest move (3. f4 for fun).

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-06, 14:38

3. g3 followed by 4. Bg2 falls under the heading of more development.
So if they play 2. ... Nc6 then its 3. g3 which leaves the question do we do an immediate reply or not.

Since they replayed with 2. ... Nc6 see reply #4 in second move.

LaurV · 2013-08-06, 15:31

I usually play either Nf3 either g3 here. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Defence#White.27s_second_move_alternatives"]People[/URL] [URL="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=33282&move=3&moves=e4.c5.Nc3.Nc6&nodes=21720.32033.33281.33282"]say that[/URL] [URL="http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=10&ms=e4.c5.Nc3.Nc6&ns=3.3.6.10"]all of[/URL] Nf3, f4, or g3 are good moves, in this order (with g3 being the weaker).

But I am quite ok with [B]g3[/B].

Do we make a fast reply (like in "I will post tomorrow, if no objection") or wait few days?

Up to now we replay the first game, hehe... keep them happy for a while, and then, when they are comfortable, confident, and get lazy, we change the path very sharp and kick their butts :razz:

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-06, 17:36

The first game started with 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. f4
I would suggest 5. d3 instead to allow them to make a mistake.

bsquared · 2013-08-06, 19:37

I imagine they are also debating when to make a break from the previous games' line of play. It will be interesting to see who breaks first, assuming we go with g3... if it follows WMHalsdorf's line, then I agree with 5. d3.

LaurV · 2013-08-07, 09:59

[QUOTE=bsquared;348453]I imagine they are also debating when to make a break from the previous games' line of play. It will be interesting to see who breaks first[/QUOTE]
They have no interest to break from the first game, as black won it. They will play along as long as we keep the path. At least this is what I should do... [B][U]We[/U][/B] are those who have to find a better path (for white).

cheesehead · 2013-08-08, 00:27

[QUOTE=LaurV;348429] [URL="http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=10&ms=e4.c5.Nc3.Nc6&ns=3.3.6.10"]all of[/URL] [/QUOTE]Hmm... Those percentages make me wish I'd looked longer at 3. Bb5

[quote]Do we make a fast reply (like in "I will post tomorrow, if no objection") or wait few days?[/quote]I'd prefer that we not hurry in any ... oops.

Please let's not hurry on any future move!

[quote]Up to now we replay the first game,[/quote][QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;348435]I would suggest 5. d3 instead to allow them to make a mistake.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bsquared;348453]I imagine they are also debating when to make a break from the previous games' line of play.[/QUOTE]
[quote=LaurV;348522] [B][U]We[/U][/B] are those who have to find a better path (for white).[/quote][U]Let's not be eager to deviate from game 1 just for the sake of deviating![/U]

We need to choose sound moves. It may be that we'll see a few moves from now that White chose an inferior (in our collective opinion) move in game 1, and [I]_that_ would be where it's appropriate to deviate.

[/I][QUOTE]They have no interest to break from the first game, as black won it.[/QUOTE]That would be lazy thinking on their part!

LaurV · 2013-08-08, 04:33

[QUOTE=cheesehead;348612]<snip>[/QUOTE]
Indeed, everything you said sounds reasonable for me.
Sorry for pushing, next time I will wait as long as we are not running out of time (except when there is an obvious/forced move to do, of course).

Related to Bb5, well.. I don't like it. Black horse is very powerful there (as we already seen from the first game, that horse did a hell of a job keeping the white's field under control, from d4), but I see no reason to give a "long range bishop" for it and in the same time help them to move a marginal pawn closer to the center (in spite of the fact that he is doubling the pawns). So, if Bb5, a6, we must take it (Ba4 is bad, we block ourselves, moving the bishop back means moving the bishop two times, during black develops his pieces), so then Bxc6, bxc6, then what? They stay quite well on the queen flank, in spite of the doubled pawn, and we are only one move ahead of castling on the king's side (our g3 is not moved yet). No, I don't like it...

Again, I am not a chess opening guru, in fact the most games I lost, I lost because I do opening mistakes. But today, with the internet and so much information available, well, everyone can sustain a good game...

On the other hands, I am very optimistic when I play, so I hope they will show some "laziness", hehe, until we find that "better move" for white.

WMHalsdorf · 2013-08-08, 05:23

The problem with Bb5 is the replay Na5 which can result in the exchange of the knight for the bishop and/or a cramped queenside. With the bishop on g2 it supports the center and when the center is opened it can be used to undermine blacks queenside.

2013-08-05, 15:42	#1
bsquared "Ben" Feb 2007 3·5·251 Posts	White 03 Getting the thread started early because I will be on vacation for the next couple weeks. Not sure what my internet access will be, so feel free to move without hearing from me. As to the 3rd move, if black continues the closed sicilian with Nc6, then I would probably go with 3. g3. I haven't tried Cheeshead's Grand Prix approach before, but have no problem trying it out if that's what others agree to. I'm here to learn from you all!

2013-08-06, 15:31	#5
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	I usually play either Nf3 either g3 here. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Defence#White.27s_second_move_alternatives"]People[/URL] [URL="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=33282&move=3&moves=e4.c5.Nc3.Nc6&nodes=21720.32033.33281.33282"]say that[/URL] [URL="http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=10&ms=e4.c5.Nc3.Nc6&ns=3.3.6.10"]all of[/URL] Nf3, f4, or g3 are good moves, in this order (with g3 being the weaker). But I am quite ok with [B]g3[/B]. Do we make a fast reply (like in "I will post tomorrow, if no objection") or wait few days? Up to now we replay the first game, hehe... keep them happy for a while, and then, when they are comfortable, confident, and get lazy, we change the path very sharp and kick their butts :razz: Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-08-06 at 15:38

2013-08-07, 09:59	#8
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	[QUOTE=bsquared;348453]I imagine they are also debating when to make a break from the previous games' line of play. It will be interesting to see who breaks first[/QUOTE] They have no interest to break from the first game, as black won it. They will play along as long as we keep the path. At least this is what I should do... [B][U]We[/U][/B] are those who have to find a better path (for white). Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-08-07 at 10:06

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2013-08-05, 20:28	#2
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	An early GPA is fine when playing over the board games which is why I would delay playing it in favor of more development.

2013-08-06, 14:02	#3
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 17014₈ Posts	I prefer 3. g3 for strongest move (3. f4 for fun).

2013-08-06, 14:38	#4
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	3. g3 followed by 4. Bg2 falls under the heading of more development. So if they play 2. ... Nc6 then its 3. g3 which leaves the question do we do an immediate reply or not. Since they replayed with 2. ... Nc6 see reply #4 in second move. Last fiddled with by WMHalsdorf on 2013-08-06 at 14:56 Reason: Added information

2013-08-06, 17:36	#6
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³·19 Posts	The first game started with 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. f4 I would suggest 5. d3 instead to allow them to make a mistake.

2013-08-06, 19:37	#7
bsquared "Ben" Feb 2007 3×5×251 Posts	I imagine they are also debating when to make a break from the previous games' line of play. It will be interesting to see who breaks first, assuming we go with g3... if it follows WMHalsdorf's line, then I agree with 5. d3.

2013-08-08, 00:27	#9
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²·3·641 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;348429] [URL="http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=10&ms=e4.c5.Nc3.Nc6&ns=3.3.6.10"]all of[/URL] [/QUOTE]Hmm... Those percentages make me wish I'd looked longer at 3. Bb5 [quote]Do we make a fast reply (like in "I will post tomorrow, if no objection") or wait few days?[/quote]I'd prefer that we not hurry in any ... oops. Please let's not hurry on any future move! [quote]Up to now we replay the first game,[/quote][QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;348435]I would suggest 5. d3 instead to allow them to make a mistake.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=bsquared;348453]I imagine they are also debating when to make a break from the previous games' line of play.[/QUOTE] [quote=LaurV;348522] [B][U]We[/U][/B] are those who have to find a better path (for white).[/quote][U]Let's not be eager to deviate from game 1 just for the sake of deviating![/U] We need to choose sound moves. It may be that we'll see a few moves from now that White chose an inferior (in our collective opinion) move in game 1, and [I]_that_ would be where it's appropriate to deviate. [/I][QUOTE]They have no interest to break from the first game, as black won it.[/QUOTE]That would be lazy thinking on their part!

2013-08-08, 04:33	#10
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	[QUOTE=cheesehead;348612]<snip>[/QUOTE] Indeed, everything you said sounds reasonable for me. Sorry for pushing, next time I will wait as long as we are not running out of time (except when there is an obvious/forced move to do, of course). Related to Bb5, well.. I don't like it. Black horse is very powerful there (as we already seen from the first game, that horse did a hell of a job keeping the white's field under control, from d4), but I see no reason to give a "long range bishop" for it and in the same time help them to move a marginal pawn closer to the center (in spite of the fact that he is doubling the pawns). So, if Bb5, a6, we must take it (Ba4 is bad, we block ourselves, moving the bishop back means moving the bishop two times, during black develops his pieces), so then Bxc6, bxc6, then what? They stay quite well on the queen flank, in spite of the doubled pawn, and we are only one move ahead of castling on the king's side (our g3 is not moved yet). No, I don't like it... Again, I am not a chess opening guru, in fact the most games I lost, I lost because I do opening mistakes. But today, with the internet and so much information available, well, everyone can sustain a good game... On the other hands, I am very optimistic when I play, so I hope they will show some "laziness", hehe, until we find that "better move" for white.

2013-08-08, 05:23	#11
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³·19 Posts	The problem with Bb5 is the replay Na5 which can result in the exchange of the knight for the bishop and/or a cramped queenside. With the bishop on g2 it supports the center and when the center is opened it can be used to undermine blacks queenside.