Move 2

henryzz · 2013-08-04, 17:00

Intriguingly they have followed our example from the first game and chosen the closed sicillian by doing 2. Nc3.
For me the main candidate moves are Nc6 and d6.
It looks like we need to watch the closed sicillian video again:
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU9iOKsYitk[/URL]
I will look for more/better videos as well. I imagine they have/will probably watch that one since it is in the previous game.
Also worth looking at is the previous games.

Brian-E · 2013-08-04, 18:02

Yes, but we should also note that this is not, yet, a Closed Sicilian. The move 2.Nc3 is highly flexible and can and does easily transpose to many variations of the Open Sicilian. It is generally White who dictates this course around moves 3-5, so for us it is still "wait and see". I admire their psychology but we don't have to fall for it and get caught off guard!:smile:

As well as 2...Nc6 and 2...d6 mentioned by David, I think 2...e6 is a good move. But then I'm biased: it leads more naturally to variations like the Taimanov, Kann and Scheveningen variations of the Open Sicilian (if that's what we eventually end up playing) which are familiar to me.

Another interesting move is 2...e5 which makes a later d4 by White (transposing into the Open Sicilian) much harder and lets us force our own agenda. However, I'm not personally familiar with this style of play, and we have to be careful with the holes on d6 and d5 which this move may create in our position.

henryzz · 2013-08-04, 20:21

It looks to me like assuming we do Nc6 and white tries to open it up with Nf3 we get a choice of being able to do d6 or e6 then. I suspect to some degree it is a choice of move order.

A question worth answering is do we want a closed or open sicillian? Can we help steer it towards one or the other in some way?

Brian-E · 2013-08-04, 22:25

[QUOTE=henryzz;348230]A question worth answering is do we want a closed or open sicillian? Can we help steer it towards one or the other in some way?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately it is really White who has that choice, much more than ourselves, because it is up to White to decide whether to play Nf3/Nge2 and d4 or not. We could prevent d2-d4 entirely, i.e. prevent an open Sicilian, by playing the rather drastic ...e5, which is what I was trying to explain with my last post. But if we choose to go down that particular route, and I don't really advocate it, then we probably should delay ...e5 by prefacing it with 2...Nc6 first, since that is much less committal. And that is similar to what you wrote in your first paragraph above, with which I am in complete agreement.

paulunderwood · 2013-08-05, 18:24

White's second move looks benign. Any advance by the knight can easily be repelled with a develomental move by us. Is this a trap? I guess we can continue with main lines. :smile:

henryzz · 2013-08-05, 19:11

I think I would go with the standard Nc6. It seems to leave lots of options for later (e6, e5, d6, d5). It isn't a terrible commital move and we can wait for what they do next.

Brian-E · 2013-08-05, 23:40

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;348328]White's second move looks benign. Any advance by the knight can easily be repelled with a develomental move by us. Is this a trap? I guess we can continue with main lines. :smile:[/QUOTE]
I think it may well be a trap, yes, in the sense that we might think "oh, it's a Closed Sicilian" and play moves which make our collective pet line of the Open Sicilian impossible, only to see them play Nf3/Nge2 and d4 transposing to an open line after all!

[QUOTE=henryzz;348331]I think I would go with the standard Nc6. It seems to leave lots of options for later (e6, e5, d6, d5). It isn't a terrible commital move and we can wait for what they do next.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely with this. My vote goes to 2...Nc6 too at the moment. But there are other good moves, and Paul, if you have a different preference from that of David and me then please say it so that we can discuss the merits of that.

paulunderwood · 2013-08-06, 00:12

2...Nc6 seems a sound move from us, attacking d4 and e5. We are agreed -- make this move. I have no preferred alternatives. :smile:

Brian-E · 2013-08-06, 07:53

Indeed. Rich is away and we do seem to have agreement amongst the remaining three of us on 2...Nc6. Ready to make our move, then, David?

2013-08-04, 17:00	#1
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	Move 2 Intriguingly they have followed our example from the first game and chosen the closed sicillian by doing 2. Nc3. For me the main candidate moves are Nc6 and d6. It looks like we need to watch the closed sicillian video again: [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU9iOKsYitk[/URL] I will look for more/better videos as well. I imagine they have/will probably watch that one since it is in the previous game. Also worth looking at is the previous games.

2013-08-04, 22:25	#4
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;348230]A question worth answering is do we want a closed or open sicillian? Can we help steer it towards one or the other in some way?[/QUOTE] Unfortunately it is really White who has that choice, much more than ourselves, because it is up to White to decide whether to play Nf3/Nge2 and d4 or not. We could prevent d2-d4 entirely, i.e. prevent an open Sicilian, by playing the rather drastic ...e5, which is what I was trying to explain with my last post. But if we choose to go down that particular route, and I don't really advocate it, then we probably should delay ...e5 by prefacing it with 2...Nc6 first, since that is much less committal. And that is similar to what you wrote in your first paragraph above, with which I am in complete agreement. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2013-08-04 at 22:28

2013-08-05, 18:24	#5
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	White's second move looks benign. Any advance by the knight can easily be repelled with a develomental move by us. Is this a trap? I guess we can continue with main lines. :smile: Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2013-08-05 at 18:24

2013-08-06, 00:12	#8
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5·937 Posts	2...Nc6 seems a sound move from us, attacking d4 and e5. We are agreed -- make this move. I have no preferred alternatives. :smile: Last fiddled with by paulunderwood on 2013-08-06 at 00:22

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2013-08-04, 18:02	#2
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	Yes, but we should also note that this is not, yet, a Closed Sicilian. The move 2.Nc3 is highly flexible and can and does easily transpose to many variations of the Open Sicilian. It is generally White who dictates this course around moves 3-5, so for us it is still "wait and see". I admire their psychology but we don't have to fall for it and get caught off guard!:smile: As well as 2...Nc6 and 2...d6 mentioned by David, I think 2...e6 is a good move. But then I'm biased: it leads more naturally to variations like the Taimanov, Kann and Scheveningen variations of the Open Sicilian (if that's what we eventually end up playing) which are familiar to me. Another interesting move is 2...e5 which makes a later d4 by White (transposing into the Open Sicilian) much harder and lets us force our own agenda. However, I'm not personally familiar with this style of play, and we have to be careful with the holes on d6 and d5 which this move may create in our position.

2013-08-04, 20:21	#3
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 6141₁₀ Posts	It looks to me like assuming we do Nc6 and white tries to open it up with Nf3 we get a choice of being able to do d6 or e6 then. I suspect to some degree it is a choice of move order. A question worth answering is do we want a closed or open sicillian? Can we help steer it towards one or the other in some way?

2013-08-05, 19:11	#6
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	I think I would go with the standard Nc6. It seems to leave lots of options for later (e6, e5, d6, d5). It isn't a terrible commital move and we can wait for what they do next.

2013-08-05, 23:40	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=paulunderwood;348328]White's second move looks benign. Any advance by the knight can easily be repelled with a develomental move by us. Is this a trap? I guess we can continue with main lines. :smile:[/QUOTE] I think it may well be a trap, yes, in the sense that we might think "oh, it's a Closed Sicilian" and play moves which make our collective pet line of the Open Sicilian impossible, only to see them play Nf3/Nge2 and d4 transposing to an open line after all! [QUOTE=henryzz;348331]I think I would go with the standard Nc6. It seems to leave lots of options for later (e6, e5, d6, d5). It isn't a terrible commital move and we can wait for what they do next.[/QUOTE] I agree completely with this. My vote goes to 2...Nc6 too at the moment. But there are other good moves, and Paul, if you have a different preference from that of David and me then please say it so that we can discuss the merits of that.

2013-08-06, 07:53	#9
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	Indeed. Rich is away and we do seem to have agreement amongst the remaining three of us on 2...Nc6. Ready to make our move, then, David?