Move 33

Brian-E · 2013-06-19, 07:10

They have elegantly removed all possible constructive moves for us. Our queen has no square to move to (33.Qh4 Re2+). The knight needs to be able to go to d2 to protect f1 when they play ...Bd3 but cannot go there now because of ...Bh3 mate so similarly cannot move. Our bishop is confined to the long white diagonal because if it moves off it they have ...Be4. Our h pawn must remain where it is to protect g3 for when our knight has to leave f3. We are close to zugzwang!

Should we just pick a waiting move like 33.Bb7, 33.Ba8, or possibly 33.a4?

The onus, I suggest, is on them to decide how they choose to finish us off. So there is no pressure on us at all. It's not difficult for them: maybe they'll go for 33.Bb7 Bd3 34.Nd2 Rde1 35.Bf3 Bb6 followed, if necessary after we play the spite check 36.Bd5+ Kh8, by ...R3e2 winning the queen. But that's up to them.:smile:

richs · 2013-06-19, 18:11

I agree, Brian. I think we should we continue temporizing with 33. Bb7.

They will have to figure out how to mate us, or there is always the small probability that they will make a mistake.

Brian-E · 2013-06-19, 18:17

Yes, that probability is indeed non-zero.:smile:
33.Bb7 would be fine by me too.

richs · 2013-06-23, 03:18

David, what say ye?

Pace, we mourn your disappearance.

Brian-E · 2013-06-23, 08:24

[QUOTE=richs;344185]David, what say ye?

Pace, we mourn your disappearance.[/QUOTE]
Seconded!
Plus a general remark: I think playing our hopeless position on is good etiquette for the time being, letting them choose how to win it, provided that we don't delay the proceedings by spending unnecessarily long on our moves.

henryzz · 2013-06-24, 11:04

I think we could possibly pay more attention to Bxb5 this move but other than that Bb7 is fine with me.
I agree we should be speeding up unless they blunder.

Brian-E · 2013-06-24, 13:18

Yep, 33.Bxb5 Be4 34.Bxc4+ Kh8 (and if 35.Be2 Rd2 winning the house) seems as good as anything to me.

I'm happy with 33.Bb7 or 33.Bxb5 and will vote for either, whichever gives a majority.

henryzz · 2013-06-25, 12:48

I think I narrowly go with Bxb5. richs?

Brian-E · 2013-06-25, 22:27

Well, we're now in the rather awkward position of being undecided on our move yet obliged to make our move within the next few hours. I'm off to bed shortly and am not getting up specially early just to check on the situation.

Since it is now night time here in Western Europe (and in Britain) and I don't know if David is still up and if he has realised that we are out of time, and nor do I know if Rich is around, I'm faced with a tricky problem. Do I post our current majority-voted move?

With sincere apologies if I am doing the wrong thing, I think I'm going to post. Rich voted for 33.Bb7. David "narrowly" for 33.Bxb5. And I said 33.Bb7 or 33.Bxb5. That means, I think, that 33.Bb7 is our move.

richs · 2013-06-25, 23:26

Sorry I didn't respond earlier today, but I did look previously at Bxb5 and here are two lines, neither of which is better than Bb7 in my opinion:

33. ... Bd3
34. Nd2 Re2
35. Bxc4+ Kg7
36. Qxe2 Bxe2
37. Bxe2 Rxd2

and we are left with a bishop vs. a rook and bishop.

Second line:

33. ... Bd3
34. Nd2 f3+
35. Nxf3 Re2
36. Qxe2 Bxe2
37. b4 Bf4

which is even worse with us having a knight vs. a rook and two bishops.

Brian, thanks for making the move.

2013-06-19, 07:10	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Move 33 They have elegantly removed all possible constructive moves for us. Our queen has no square to move to (33.Qh4 Re2+). The knight needs to be able to go to d2 to protect f1 when they play ...Bd3 but cannot go there now because of ...Bh3 mate so similarly cannot move. Our bishop is confined to the long white diagonal because if it moves off it they have ...Be4. Our h pawn must remain where it is to protect g3 for when our knight has to leave f3. We are close to zugzwang! Should we just pick a waiting move like 33.Bb7, 33.Ba8, or possibly 33.a4? The onus, I suggest, is on them to decide how they choose to finish us off. So there is no pressure on us at all. It's not difficult for them: maybe they'll go for 33.Bb7 Bd3 34.Nd2 Rde1 35.Bf3 Bb6 followed, if necessary after we play the spite check 36.Bd5+ Kh8, by ...R3e2 winning the queen. But that's up to them.:smile: Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2013-06-19 at 07:14

2013-06-25, 22:27	#9
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Well, we're now in the rather awkward position of being undecided on our move yet obliged to make our move within the next few hours. I'm off to bed shortly and am not getting up specially early just to check on the situation. Since it is now night time here in Western Europe (and in Britain) and I don't know if David is still up and if he has realised that we are out of time, and nor do I know if Rich is around, I'm faced with a tricky problem. Do I post our current majority-voted move? With sincere apologies if I am doing the wrong thing, I think I'm going to post. Rich voted for 33.Bb7. David "narrowly" for 33.Bxb5. And I said 33.Bb7 or 33.Bxb5. That means, I think, that 33.Bb7 is our move. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2013-06-25 at 22:28

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2013-06-19, 18:11	#2
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 3266₈ Posts	I agree, Brian. I think we should we continue temporizing with 33. Bb7. They will have to figure out how to mate us, or there is always the small probability that they will make a mistake.

2013-06-19, 18:17	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	Yes, that probability is indeed non-zero.:smile: 33.Bb7 would be fine by me too.

2013-06-23, 03:18	#4
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	David, what say ye? Pace, we mourn your disappearance.

2013-06-23, 08:24	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=richs;344185]David, what say ye? Pace, we mourn your disappearance.[/QUOTE] Seconded! Plus a general remark: I think playing our hopeless position on is good etiquette for the time being, letting them choose how to win it, provided that we don't delay the proceedings by spending unnecessarily long on our moves.

2013-06-24, 11:04	#6
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 17FD₁₆ Posts	I think we could possibly pay more attention to Bxb5 this move but other than that Bb7 is fine with me. I agree we should be speeding up unless they blunder.

2013-06-24, 13:18	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	Yep, 33.Bxb5 Be4 34.Bxc4+ Kh8 (and if 35.Be2 Rd2 winning the house) seems as good as anything to me. I'm happy with 33.Bb7 or 33.Bxb5 and will vote for either, whichever gives a majority.

2013-06-25, 12:48	#8
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	I think I narrowly go with Bxb5. richs?

2013-06-25, 23:26	#10
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	Sorry I didn't respond earlier today, but I did look previously at Bxb5 and here are two lines, neither of which is better than Bb7 in my opinion: 33. ... Bd3 34. Nd2 Re2 35. Bxc4+ Kg7 36. Qxe2 Bxe2 37. Bxe2 Rxd2 and we are left with a bishop vs. a rook and bishop. Second line: 33. ... Bd3 34. Nd2 f3+ 35. Nxf3 Re2 36. Qxe2 Bxe2 37. b4 Bf4 which is even worse with us having a knight vs. a rook and two bishops. Brian, thanks for making the move.