Black 30th

[LaurV]

Wow! That is a surprise! Their 30.a3 move seems to be a waste. Can they transform there if they take b5? Actually they make a free pawn, but I think they are doomed if they move the bishop out of diagonal. Their concentration should be on the other side of the board. I was honestly expecting a h3/h4 or better a waiting move as Bb7. They can't do nothing there (I mean with the pawns), and we still can threat (and take!) the bishop, with Rd6 now, but the question is if it worth to run after the bishop, which is anyhow locked there. Does it worth for us to waste 4-5 moves to get that bishop? He still can finish with a free pawn there. I still believe Bg4 is our strongest attack, but now his move opens a possibility for Rd1 and attack either the pawns from the back, or the queen after Rd1/Rc1/Rc2, she is literary stuck there, it has no place to go. So it is either Rd1 or Bg4, but no idea which is better. Still looking into it. Someone can look deeper if they have any chance to transform one of the pawns there (assuming we live the last line with the rook).

[WMHalsdorf]

I was thinking Bd3 but haven't gone thru all the Bg4 lines yet.

[science_man_88]

[QUOTE=LaurV;342268]with Rd6 [/QUOTE] Bxb5 n what do you play next you have to chase me using the c column for me not to take c4 and put you in check. it puts our pawn in a hard place I think move and be captured or stay still and allow a possible double capture ( admittedly you can protect it but then again is it worth it).

[WMHalsdorf]

Another possiblity is Rd1 which really hems in the king'

[science_man_88]

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;342316]Another possiblity is Rd1 which really hems in the king'[/QUOTE]

can we get h3 out of them ? ( Bg4 might entice them to later) if we can't get g3 not protected we can't checkmate with Rg3# if we can get he knight and pawn to move Rg3+ would be a dilemma for the queen unless it captures it forces the king back, but if it does capture it gets captured by a pawn possibly.

[WMHalsdorf]

After Rd1 can someone find a white improvement on the following 3 lines.

31.Ng1 Be5 32.Bxb5 Bd3

31.h3 Bd3 32.Ng1 Bf1+ 33.Kh2 Be5 34.Nf3 Re2 35.Qxe2 Bxe2 36.Nxe5

31.Bxb5 Bd3 32.Ng1 Be4+ 33.Nf3 Bxf3+ 34.Qxf3 Rxf3 35.Bxc4+ Kf8 36.Kxf3 Be5

[science_man_88]

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;342353]After Rd1 can someone find a white improvement on the following 3 lines.

31.Ng1 Be5 32.Bxb5 Bd3

31.h3 Bd3 32.Ng1 Bf1+ 33.Kh2 Be5 34.Nf3 Re2 35.Qxe2 Bxe2 36.Nxe5

31.Bxb5 Bd3 32.Ng1 Be4+ 33.Nf3 Bxf3+ 34.Qxf3 Rxf3 35.Bxc4+ Kf8 36.Kxf3 Be5[/QUOTE]


I don't see the positive for us in the first, I don't see why 33. Kh2 would be done when Qxf1 is there with no threat. I'm still not able to process as far as the third ahead.

[WMHalsdorf]

[QUOTE=science_man_88;342355]I don't see the positive for us in the first, I don't see why 33. Kh2 would be done when Qxf1 is there with no threat. I'm still not able to process as far as the third ahead.[/QUOTE]

There is a pawn on h2.

[science_man_88]

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;342381]There is a pawn on h2.[/QUOTE]
not in the h3 line.

[LaurV]

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;342353]After Rd1 can someone find a white improvement on the following 3 lines.

31.Ng1 Be5 32.Bxb5 Bd3

31.h3 Bd3 32.Ng1 Bf1+ 33.Kh2 Be5 34.Nf3 Re2 35.Qxe2 Bxe2 36.Nxe5

31.Bxb5 Bd3 32.Ng1 Be4+ 33.Nf3 Bxf3+ 34.Qxf3 Rxf3 35.Bxc4+ Kf8 36.Kxf3 Be5[/QUOTE]

Last one,[B][COLOR=Blue] 31.Bxb5[/COLOR][/B] is terrible for white, especially with your continuation, Bd3. He can not live the diagonal and take that pawn, is poisoned! (well, a poisoned pawn means something else in chess, but well, this pawn is poisoned for real! because he can't live the diagonal with the bishop!)

Assuming we play 31...Bd3 (still a very good move, but I don't know if it is our best, I consider 31...Be4 much better), he [B]better plays 32.Kh3 or 32.Nd2[/B]. With the last, he loses the queen after 32...Re2 (linked, need to give it for a rook). The former is worse, after 32...Rf1, white's only choice to avoid the mate is to exchange the queen for the rook, his horse is still linked or lost (depending which rook he takes, but he must take f1, if he takes e3 we transform for sure, and play queen and rook and bishop against nothing! I think this is in fact mate fast, as he can not live the corner) and we transform the pawn in f (or in e, if he takes e3).

The version you propose, 32.Ng1 is worse than both versions I propose (worse for white), as after 31.Bxb5 Bd3 32.Ng1 (bad!) Be4+ (indeed very good response of black!) white can not avoid the mate: 33.Nf3 [B]Rxf3 (!) [/B](not with the bishop!) If he does not take it with the queen, is immediate mate with double check: Rg3. He can delay the mate if Bxc4, but only one move, at the end he must take the rook, then [U]the queen is linked![/U] we have Rd2, check, king goes somewhere, Bxf3 for free!, and mate in few moves (the king, either in h3 or on the first line, can't go anywhere, and we eventually can support with the bishop in g7). For 33...Bxf3 (your version) we can't use Rd2 because [U]his queen is not linked[/U], and he can block moving the queen back to f2, so we have no bishop (we gave it for free!). This is also our win, but longer.

So, if we play Bd3, his Ng1 is not his best, he is mate in mostly 20 moves if he plays Ng1. He has better replies to 31.Bxb5 Bd3, but we [U]may not need[/U] to play 31...Bd3, I think that if he leaves the diagonal with the bishop, then 31...Be4, we [U]link the horse[/U] and we are somehow like before, only we are not "in sente", because now he is to move (before, it was our move, after he blocked with the horse). Never mind we lost the "sente", he can't do too much, and we somehow "shorted" the previous tree by two moves :smile: What he can actually do now best is 32.Bxc4 check, Kh8, 33.Be2 which seems to complicate the things because of that bishop, but after 33...Rd2 all his pieces are interlocked or linked, and the only thing he can do is exchange the queen for the rock in e3, or move the king. In both cases he loses the queen and another piece (both the horse and the bishop are linked if he takes the rook, and if he moves the king then Rxe2 and he must exchange the queen to avoid the mate) and we transform the advanced pawn, or take the other piece (horse) for it. We can even exchange the last rook for its horse and then we guard the pawn in the back, his king must then stay there, otherwise we transform the pawn. So we are "free" to clear the rest of the board with our king, and he can't transform the b&c because our pawn in a7 and the bishop in e5.

The second version of yours [B][COLOR=Blue]31.h3 Bd3 32.Ng1[/COLOR][/B] (he can here extend by a move, playing the Bd5-check first, but futile) [STRIKE]Bf1+ 33.Kh2 Be5 34.Nf3 Re2 35.Qxe2 Bxe2 36.Nxe5 [/STRIKE] [COLOR=Red][B]32...Be5[/B] (!)[/COLOR] is also very bad for white, but not so terrible as the third.

(The continuation 32...Bf1+ [B](bad!)[/B] 33.Kh2 Be5, this has the[B] [COLOR=Red]34.Bf3[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=Red] (!)[/COLOR] which become very difficult to crack for black! - white is all defended and we can not immediately attack the queen, we have no interest to break the fortress by giving a bishop for a pawn or a rock for a horse... Still winable by black, but much harder - I honestly don't know how that can be won, but black still has a lot of advantage, and white did not make any free pawns). Anyhow, this is only in theory. In practice, we play 32...Be5 defending the pawn, he is death anyhow. This version (h3, and idem for h4) is sure death for white.

The first of your lines [COLOR=Blue][B]31.Ng1 Be5[/B][/COLOR] [STRIKE]32.Bxb5 Bd3[/STRIKE] (bad! discussed before, he can't leave the diagonal, we win if so!) is in fact the reason why I preferred the [COLOR=Red][B]30...Bg4[/B] (!)[/COLOR] :razz: He can play here 32.Ba8, or Bb7, or even Nf3 back, and we have no progress except that we developed the bishop a bit, but we still need to move it back (to d6?) to full develop it (we can't put it to d4). I can not find a good continuation for 30...Rd1 31.Ng1, even if indeed, Be5 seems to be our best move here. But then what? Anyhow, 30...Rd1 seems as much promising as 30...Bg4 with only the analysis we have already. [U]We have to think a bit deeper for this Ng1, if we can solve it favorable to us, then this Rd1 is our move, as all the other paths from it seem to be better for us, compared with the paths from 30...Bg4.[/U] The only path unsolved is 30...Rd1, 31.Ng1.

So: [COLOR=Blue][B]31.Ng1 Be5.[/B] [COLOR=black]Then what? i.e. What do we reply to 32.Bb7, or Ba8, or Bf3, or Nf3? [/COLOR][/COLOR]

[LaurV]

Hey, methink now at 1 o'clock in the night, that Rd1 move is better then Bg4 move, indeed! Thanks WMH, well done! We can deal well with all situations after Rd1, including Ng1, my only concern was if they can escape with the queen (like taking a7 or something, and then bothering us with eternal check). But they can not!

So, my vote goes to [B]30...Rd1

[/B][edit: most probably the game will continue with 31.Ng1, Be5, as said, and from there, let's see their reply. If Nf3 back, then we can position our bishop to c7/b6, or d6/c5, with a very strong attack on the queen, and they still have no place to go. If he plays the bishop, then Rc1/c2 is a very strong attack on the queen too. They must change it!]