Move 27

Brian-E · 2013-05-02, 19:30

The first thing that strikes me about their move 26...Rfe8 is that they may be intending to sacrifice the exchange with 27...Rxe4 28.Qxe4. If we play 27.Nf3 they cannot follow up with ...Rd2+, but is this still good for them? I for one still need to examine this carefully.

We have the move 27.Bc6 (presumably answered by 27...Re5) if we are scared of the sacrifice.

henryzz · 2013-05-02, 23:26

Going to bed now but could they be opening up for an attack on our pawn on g5. h4 would defend against that. Should we do it before or after a possible Re5?

Brian-E · 2013-05-03, 07:53

The objection I would have to the move h4 is that we are then permanently unable to play h3 controlling g4 which could be an important square for them to post their light squared bishop, to swap our defensive knight on f3 and/or to invade on e2. We might indeed be forced to defend g5 with h4 in the future, but I think we should play h4 only when we have to.

The move ...Re5 looks well answered by Nf3 at the moment, I think.

Perhaps we should play 27.Nf3 at once, though, which prevents ...Re5 for now. They could reply 27...Bg4 followed by ...Bxf3 to get ...Re5 in, but by then we will have had time to bring the queen into play via f2 and c5 or xa7. Frankly I'm much more concerned about the rooks invading on our second rank than attacking g5 which, as you say, can be defended with h4 when absolutely necessary.

Thinking about their last move 26...Rfe8, maybe they are actually hoping that we play 27.Bc6 Re3 (not ...27...Re5 as I suggested last time, answered by 28.Nf3) 28.Bxb5? Bb7+ with a crushing attack.

I think they are also hoping to play 27...Rxe4 28.Qxe4 Rd2+ but I think the move 27.Nf3 defends adequately against this. They don't seem to have enough for the sacrificed material after 27.Nf3 Rxe4 28.Qxe4, and will probably need to proceed with 27...Bg4 instead.

richs · 2013-05-03, 13:53

My first inclination is Nf3 which also protects our g5 pawn. I will take a more detailed look today when I get some time at work. (Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm here....)

richs · 2013-05-03, 19:02

I analyzed 27. Bc6 and perhaps it's not as bad as thought:

27. Bc6 Re3
28. Bxb5 Bb7+
29. Kf1 Bd5
30. Qa4 Be4
31. Qxc4+ Kh8
32. Qc7 Rf8
33. Qxa7 Bd5

And then we have our queenside pawns on the move.

I'll look further at 27. Nf3....

Brian-E · 2013-05-03, 19:21

[QUOTE=richs;339172]I analyzed 27. Bc6 and perhaps it's not as bad as thought:

27. Bc6 Re3
28. Bxb5 Bb7+
29. Kf1 Bd5
30. Qa4 Be4
31. Qxc4+ Kh8
32. Qc7 Rf8
33. Qxa7 Bd5

And then we have our queenside pawns on the move.

I'll look further at 27. Nf3....[/QUOTE]
Good to know you're around as well, Rich. I hope Zeta-Flux manages to join us too.
Yes, I think 27.Bc6 and 28.Bxb5 just might be playable, but I consider it dubious. We'll have to be extremely sure of ourselves to go for that. In your line I would improve on Black's play with (27.Bc6 Re3 28.Bxb5 Bb7+ 29.Kf1) [B]f3[/B] 30.Bxc4+ Kh8 31.Qb3 (how else can we get play? if 31.Qc1 Rde8) Be4 followed by ...Be5.

richs · 2013-05-03, 19:55

With 27. Nf3 followed by Bg4, we would respond h3 so that doesn't look too attractive for black.

I have trouble finding a good move for black to respond to Nf3, perhaps Rd6, but we then mobilize the queenside pawns.

richs · 2013-05-03, 20:18

If 29. .... f3 (per post #6), then 30. Bxc4+ Kh8, followed by 31. Kf2 and we chase the e-file rook away.

Brian-E · 2013-05-03, 23:01

[QUOTE=richs;339177]With 27. Nf3 followed by Bg4, we would respond h3 so that doesn't look too attractive for black.

I have trouble finding a good move for black to respond to Nf3, perhaps Rd6, but we then mobilize the queenside pawns.[/QUOTE]
The point of ...Bg4 would be to exchange the bishop for the knight on f3 and later hope to invade on the d2 square. So I think 28.h3 is a bit of a wasted move after 27.Nf3 Bg4. Whether Black will go for this is another question, because after we recapture on f3, probably with the king, our bishop is now protected and we hopefully have time to activate the queen via f2.

[QUOTE=richs;339178]If 29. .... f3 (per post #6), then 30. Bxc4+ Kh8, followed by 31. Kf2 and we chase the e-file rook away.[/QUOTE]
31...Rde8 allows the rook to remain where it is. Though then they cannot play ...Be5 for the moment, so 31.Kf2 may indeed be a good move, but I still think they have a dangerous attack, proceeding by redeploying the dark squared bishop via f8 to d6 or c5.
Maybe (27.Bc6 Re3 28.Bxb5 Bb7+) 29.Kf2 improves on this, saving time.

Brian-E · 2013-05-05, 14:15

Thanks to Rich's analysis I'm currently inclining towards 27.Bc6 followed by Bxb5 at the moment. The fact that we cannot so far find a clear win for Black suggests to me that we should perhaps play this now while we can, before they tighten up with ...a6. Another consideration is that we probably have to move our bishop from e4 soon anyway in order to be able to activate the queen which is currently tied to its defence.

What does everyone else currently think?

richs · 2013-05-06, 18:33

Here's another variation on Bc6 with a bishop exchange:

27. Bc6 Bd7
28. Bxd7 Rxd7
29. Qf2 Re4
30. Nf3

and we still have prospects.

2013-05-02, 19:30	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Move 27 The first thing that strikes me about their move 26...Rfe8 is that they may be intending to sacrifice the exchange with 27...Rxe4 28.Qxe4. If we play 27.Nf3 they cannot follow up with ...Rd2+, but is this still good for them? I for one still need to examine this carefully. We have the move 27.Bc6 (presumably answered by 27...Re5) if we are scared of the sacrifice.

2013-05-02, 23:26	#2
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	Going to bed now but could they be opening up for an attack on our pawn on g5. h4 would defend against that. Should we do it before or after a possible Re5? Last fiddled with by henryzz on 2013-05-02 at 23:26

2013-05-03, 20:18	#8
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 11010110110₂ Posts	If 29. .... f3 (per post #6), then 30. Bxc4+ Kh8, followed by 31. Kf2 and we chase the e-file rook away. Last fiddled with by richs on 2013-05-03 at 20:18 Reason: Added reference to post #6

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2013-05-03, 07:53	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	The objection I would have to the move h4 is that we are then permanently unable to play h3 controlling g4 which could be an important square for them to post their light squared bishop, to swap our defensive knight on f3 and/or to invade on e2. We might indeed be forced to defend g5 with h4 in the future, but I think we should play h4 only when we have to. The move ...Re5 looks well answered by Nf3 at the moment, I think. Perhaps we should play 27.Nf3 at once, though, which prevents ...Re5 for now. They could reply 27...Bg4 followed by ...Bxf3 to get ...Re5 in, but by then we will have had time to bring the queen into play via f2 and c5 or xa7. Frankly I'm much more concerned about the rooks invading on our second rank than attacking g5 which, as you say, can be defended with h4 when absolutely necessary. Thinking about their last move 26...Rfe8, maybe they are actually hoping that we play 27.Bc6 Re3 (not ...27...Re5 as I suggested last time, answered by 28.Nf3) 28.Bxb5? Bb7+ with a crushing attack. I think they are also hoping to play 27...Rxe4 28.Qxe4 Rd2+ but I think the move 27.Nf3 defends adequately against this. They don't seem to have enough for the sacrificed material after 27.Nf3 Rxe4 28.Qxe4, and will probably need to proceed with 27...Bg4 instead.

2013-05-03, 13:53	#4
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	My first inclination is Nf3 which also protects our g5 pawn. I will take a more detailed look today when I get some time at work. (Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm here....)

2013-05-03, 19:02	#5
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	I analyzed 27. Bc6 and perhaps it's not as bad as thought: 27. Bc6 Re3 28. Bxb5 Bb7+ 29. Kf1 Bd5 30. Qa4 Be4 31. Qxc4+ Kh8 32. Qc7 Rf8 33. Qxa7 Bd5 And then we have our queenside pawns on the move. I'll look further at 27. Nf3....

2013-05-03, 19:21	#6
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=richs;339172]I analyzed 27. Bc6 and perhaps it's not as bad as thought: 27. Bc6 Re3 28. Bxb5 Bb7+ 29. Kf1 Bd5 30. Qa4 Be4 31. Qxc4+ Kh8 32. Qc7 Rf8 33. Qxa7 Bd5 And then we have our queenside pawns on the move. I'll look further at 27. Nf3....[/QUOTE] Good to know you're around as well, Rich. I hope Zeta-Flux manages to join us too. Yes, I think 27.Bc6 and 28.Bxb5 just might be playable, but I consider it dubious. We'll have to be extremely sure of ourselves to go for that. In your line I would improve on Black's play with (27.Bc6 Re3 28.Bxb5 Bb7+ 29.Kf1) [B]f3[/B] 30.Bxc4+ Kh8 31.Qb3 (how else can we get play? if 31.Qc1 Rde8) Be4 followed by ...Be5.

2013-05-03, 19:55	#7
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	With 27. Nf3 followed by Bg4, we would respond h3 so that doesn't look too attractive for black. I have trouble finding a good move for black to respond to Nf3, perhaps Rd6, but we then mobilize the queenside pawns.

2013-05-03, 23:01	#9
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=richs;339177]With 27. Nf3 followed by Bg4, we would respond h3 so that doesn't look too attractive for black. I have trouble finding a good move for black to respond to Nf3, perhaps Rd6, but we then mobilize the queenside pawns.[/QUOTE] The point of ...Bg4 would be to exchange the bishop for the knight on f3 and later hope to invade on the d2 square. So I think 28.h3 is a bit of a wasted move after 27.Nf3 Bg4. Whether Black will go for this is another question, because after we recapture on f3, probably with the king, our bishop is now protected and we hopefully have time to activate the queen via f2. [QUOTE=richs;339178]If 29. .... f3 (per post #6), then 30. Bxc4+ Kh8, followed by 31. Kf2 and we chase the e-file rook away.[/QUOTE] 31...Rde8 allows the rook to remain where it is. Though then they cannot play ...Be5 for the moment, so 31.Kf2 may indeed be a good move, but I still think they have a dangerous attack, proceeding by redeploying the dark squared bishop via f8 to d6 or c5. Maybe (27.Bc6 Re3 28.Bxb5 Bb7+) 29.Kf2 improves on this, saving time.

2013-05-05, 14:15	#10
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Thanks to Rich's analysis I'm currently inclining towards 27.Bc6 followed by Bxb5 at the moment. The fact that we cannot so far find a clear win for Black suggests to me that we should perhaps play this now while we can, before they tighten up with ...a6. Another consideration is that we probably have to move our bishop from e4 soon anyway in order to be able to activate the queen which is currently tied to its defence. What does everyone else currently think?

2013-05-06, 18:33	#11
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 3266₈ Posts	Here's another variation on Bc6 with a bishop exchange: 27. Bc6 Bd7 28. Bxd7 Rxd7 29. Qf2 Re4 30. Nf3 and we still have prospects.