Move 26 - Page 2

Brian-E · 2013-04-23, 16:43

Here's my current take:
[LIST][*]We must meet the immediate threat of ...f3+[*]The only two reasonable looking moves which meet the threat are 26.Ng1 and 26.Kf3 (we determined that 26.Nd4 was unplayable last time)[*]26.Kf3 leaves us vulnerable to invasion on d2: we have yet to show how to get around that[*]26.Ng1 looks best to me, to post the knight on the blockading square which also crucially controls d2[*]We now have less than 60 hours before we are required to make our move!!![/LIST]

richs · 2013-04-24, 19:20

Sorry for being AWOL! I played a couple of lines:

26. Kf3 Be6
27. h4 Kh8
28. Nd4 Bxd4
29. cxd4 Kg7
30. Qc3
This doesn't look bad....

26. Ng1 Rfe8
27. Nf3 Rd6
28. b3 Be6
29. Qc1
Preventing their rooks from doubling....

I will keep working on our position.

Brian-E · 2013-04-24, 19:49

Good to hear from you Rich!

In the 26.Kf3 line my particular concern is Black's doubling of rooks on the d file and invading on d2 before we have time to get organised. So if they waste time by playing moves like ...Kh8 followed later by ...Kg7, as in the line you give, it would seem to me that they are letting us off lightly. Can you find a good way of dealing with 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.b3 Be6 with ...Rfd8 to follow?

richs · 2013-04-24, 22:39

How about

26. Kf3 Rd6
27. Nd4

This keeps their bishop off e6, and if they move their rook from f8, we'll take their f4 pawn with our King.

Brian-E · 2013-04-25, 08:05

[QUOTE=richs;338190]How about

26. Kf3 Rd6
27. Nd4

This keeps their bishop off e6, and if they move their rook from f8, we'll take their f4 pawn with our King.[/QUOTE]
Yes, if we play Kf3 first then perhaps Nd4 is then possible. But I think that taking on f4 with the king is too risky and probably gives them a winning attack:
26.Kf3 Rd6 27.Nd4 Rfd8 28.Kxf4 Bxd4 29.cxd4 Rxd4 (now pins our bishop so that we cannot reply 30.Bxg6) 30.Ke3 Rd2 31.Qc3 Rxh2 32.Qa5 (not 32.Qf6 Rh3+ wins material [33.Ke2 Re8; 33.K-f file Rf8; 33.Bf3 Rd3+]) Rh3+ 33.Kf2 (33.Ke2 Re8) Rf8+ 34.Kg2 Re3 and I think they will win.

Improvements on this?

If we indeed can't take on f4, then I think we need to set up the secure blockade with the knight on f3.

henryzz · 2013-04-25, 08:28

If we don't take with the king I like the way we are using black's pawn for defence. The pawn will have turned traitor. Taking exposes our king.

Brian-E · 2013-04-25, 08:45

[QUOTE=henryzz;338243]If we don't take with the king I like the way we are using black's pawn for defence. The pawn will have turned traitor. Taking exposes our king.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I take this point. In the line I gave in my last post I've now found 32.Qe5 which is an improvement for us, but I'm sure they can do better earlier on. Their attack just looks too dangerous. Yet as you say, leaving the f pawn on the board gives our king more protection.

After 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.Nd4 Rfd8 simply 28.Nxb5 looks fine.

However: I still think our set-up here is unstable because Black does not need to hurry. 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.Nd4 a6. The problem now is that they can play ...Bxd4 at whatever point they choose, whenever they have their other points - especially g6 - adequately defended. This will let them invade on d2.

So my view is: yes, leave the f pawn on the board. But manoeuvre the knight to f3, not the king, so that d2 is defended.

Brian-E · 2013-04-25, 09:48

Practical point in connection with our time difficulties this move:

At this moment we have just under 18 hours before we must make our move. We need to avoid a situation where we have not reached a consensus, some team members are not around, and the time has come for David or anyone else to post the move to avoid a time infringement.

Can I suggest that everyone now writes down their (current) voted move with their next post. This can of course be changed later before the deadline, and our discussion can continue, but last voted move by each team member counts when the time comes. Okay?

Plus: we need to make sure that someone is on hand to make the move. I myself will be asleep in bed at the time of the deadline. The last time I undertake to look at this thread will be at GMT 22:00, 25 April. That is in a bit over 12 hours from this posting. Any team members who can undertake to be around later than that but before the deadline, please indicate so. The latest time so indicated is the time the move will be made, by the team member who indicated it. Okay?

My current move vote is [B]26.Ng1[/B]. But, if this results in a 2-2 (or 1-1) split in voted moves, I am willing to change my vote to 26.Kf3 in order to enable a majority decison. I will be around at GMT 22:00, 25 April and will post our current majority vote at that time if no-one else indicates that they will be here at a later point before the deadline.

henryzz · 2013-04-25, 10:44

My gut tells me Kf3 but you do seem to have more justification for Ng1 so I vote Ng1. I am happy to change if necessary.
I will be around to post assuming I don't forget. If we do forget it isn't the end of the world fortunately.

Brian-E · 2013-04-25, 10:51

[QUOTE=henryzz;338252]My gut tells me Kf3 but you do seem to have more justification for Ng1 so I vote Ng1. I am happy to change if necessary.
I will be around to post assuming I don't forget. If we do forget it isn't the end of the world fortunately.[/QUOTE]
Okay, looks like you'll be not forgetting to post our move, and I'll just go to bed.:smile:

richs · 2013-04-25, 19:21

I think it's a toss-up so I go with Ng1 also. David, if you don't make the move within 6 hours, I'll post it since it's only 1220 local time for me now.

2013-04-25, 08:05	#16
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;338190]How about 26. Kf3 Rd6 27. Nd4 This keeps their bishop off e6, and if they move their rook from f8, we'll take their f4 pawn with our King.[/QUOTE] Yes, if we play Kf3 first then perhaps Nd4 is then possible. But I think that taking on f4 with the king is too risky and probably gives them a winning attack: 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.Nd4 Rfd8 28.Kxf4 Bxd4 29.cxd4 Rxd4 (now pins our bishop so that we cannot reply 30.Bxg6) 30.Ke3 Rd2 31.Qc3 Rxh2 32.Qa5 (not 32.Qf6 Rh3+ wins material [33.Ke2 Re8; 33.K-f file Rf8; 33.Bf3 Rd3+]) Rh3+ 33.Kf2 (33.Ke2 Re8) Rf8+ 34.Kg2 Re3 and I think they will win. Improvements on this? If we indeed can't take on f4, then I think we need to set up the secure blockade with the knight on f3. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2013-04-25 at 08:13

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2013-04-23, 16:43	#12
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	Here's my current take: [LIST][]We must meet the immediate threat of ...f3+[]The only two reasonable looking moves which meet the threat are 26.Ng1 and 26.Kf3 (we determined that 26.Nd4 was unplayable last time)[]26.Kf3 leaves us vulnerable to invasion on d2: we have yet to show how to get around that[]26.Ng1 looks best to me, to post the knight on the blockading square which also crucially controls d2[*]We now have less than 60 hours before we are required to make our move!!![/LIST]

2013-04-24, 19:20	#13
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	Sorry for being AWOL! I played a couple of lines: 26. Kf3 Be6 27. h4 Kh8 28. Nd4 Bxd4 29. cxd4 Kg7 30. Qc3 This doesn't look bad.... 26. Ng1 Rfe8 27. Nf3 Rd6 28. b3 Be6 29. Qc1 Preventing their rooks from doubling.... I will keep working on our position.

2013-04-24, 19:49	#14
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	Good to hear from you Rich! In the 26.Kf3 line my particular concern is Black's doubling of rooks on the d file and invading on d2 before we have time to get organised. So if they waste time by playing moves like ...Kh8 followed later by ...Kg7, as in the line you give, it would seem to me that they are letting us off lightly. Can you find a good way of dealing with 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.b3 Be6 with ...Rfd8 to follow?

2013-04-24, 22:39	#15
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 3266₈ Posts	How about 26. Kf3 Rd6 27. Nd4 This keeps their bishop off e6, and if they move their rook from f8, we'll take their f4 pawn with our King.

2013-04-25, 08:28	#17
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	If we don't take with the king I like the way we are using black's pawn for defence. The pawn will have turned traitor. Taking exposes our king.

2013-04-25, 08:45	#18
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;338243]If we don't take with the king I like the way we are using black's pawn for defence. The pawn will have turned traitor. Taking exposes our king.[/QUOTE] Yes, I take this point. In the line I gave in my last post I've now found 32.Qe5 which is an improvement for us, but I'm sure they can do better earlier on. Their attack just looks too dangerous. Yet as you say, leaving the f pawn on the board gives our king more protection. After 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.Nd4 Rfd8 simply 28.Nxb5 looks fine. However: I still think our set-up here is unstable because Black does not need to hurry. 26.Kf3 Rd6 27.Nd4 a6. The problem now is that they can play ...Bxd4 at whatever point they choose, whenever they have their other points - especially g6 - adequately defended. This will let them invade on d2. So my view is: yes, leave the f pawn on the board. But manoeuvre the knight to f3, not the king, so that d2 is defended.

2013-04-25, 09:48	#19
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	Practical point in connection with our time difficulties this move: At this moment we have just under 18 hours before we must make our move. We need to avoid a situation where we have not reached a consensus, some team members are not around, and the time has come for David or anyone else to post the move to avoid a time infringement. Can I suggest that everyone now writes down their (current) voted move with their next post. This can of course be changed later before the deadline, and our discussion can continue, but last voted move by each team member counts when the time comes. Okay? Plus: we need to make sure that someone is on hand to make the move. I myself will be asleep in bed at the time of the deadline. The last time I undertake to look at this thread will be at GMT 22:00, 25 April. That is in a bit over 12 hours from this posting. Any team members who can undertake to be around later than that but before the deadline, please indicate so. The latest time so indicated is the time the move will be made, by the team member who indicated it. Okay? My current move vote is [B]26.Ng1[/B]. But, if this results in a 2-2 (or 1-1) split in voted moves, I am willing to change my vote to 26.Kf3 in order to enable a majority decison. I will be around at GMT 22:00, 25 April and will post our current majority vote at that time if no-one else indicates that they will be here at a later point before the deadline.

2013-04-25, 10:44	#20
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 6141₁₀ Posts	My gut tells me Kf3 but you do seem to have more justification for Ng1 so I vote Ng1. I am happy to change if necessary. I will be around to post assuming I don't forget. If we do forget it isn't the end of the world fortunately.

2013-04-25, 10:51	#21
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;338252]My gut tells me Kf3 but you do seem to have more justification for Ng1 so I vote Ng1. I am happy to change if necessary. I will be around to post assuming I don't forget. If we do forget it isn't the end of the world fortunately.[/QUOTE] Okay, looks like you'll be not forgetting to post our move, and I'll just go to bed.:smile:

2013-04-25, 19:21	#22
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 3266₈ Posts	I think it's a toss-up so I go with Ng1 also. David, if you don't make the move within 6 hours, I'll post it since it's only 1220 local time for me now.