→26 - Page 2

science_man_88 · 2013-04-27, 11:42

[QUOTE=LaurV;338498]I am also thinking to Bg4, as being the best move now.[/QUOTE]

the reason I liked this at all is because if you look our pawn and bishop together basically form a wall of can't move squares in front of the king. but I can see how we can mess it up later on.

LaurV · 2013-04-30, 08:31

So, my vote goes definitively to [B]26...Rfe8[/B]. That queen needs to be hold back as much as possible. They can't do Qc1 or Qf2 because they lose the bishop. If we go Bg4 now, after his Bc6, the queen can easily go out in few moves, as we can't guard the e4 anymore. Now, after 26...Rfe8, 27.Bd6, [B]Re5[/B] (!) it is both defending the pawn in b5 and forcing their attention on the pawn in g5, and in the same time, holds the column so his queen is futile for few more moves. We will win this game strategically, if not tactically. I think I can win this position from here, regardless of their move, we got a nice advantage at the end.

(again for newcomers :razz:, I am very optimistic when I play any game, not only chess, I believe I can win the game with every move I make).

Other moves possible here seem to be either very bad for us, or too much defensive (like Kh8, a6, Rf7, etc).

Moreover, thinking again about that bishop of ours, their best reply to 26...Rfe8 would be 27.h4, to counter our future development of the rock to e5, and in this case we still can play Bg4, but now they can't anymore scary it off with h3, as the pawn is already in h4. So in this way we can make both moves, and create space to develop the other bishop with Bf8 next (depending on their move).

So, are there any better suggestions than 26...Rfe8?
Should we vote? In fact there is only one possible counter-candidate, and that might be 26...Bg4, which, as I said, I consider it weaker. The other moves are either bad or too defensive.

science_man_88 · 2013-04-30, 11:48

[QUOTE=LaurV;338822]So, my vote goes definitively to [B]26...Rfe8[/B]. That queen needs to be hold back as much as possible. They can't do Qc1 or Qf2 because they lose the bishop. If we go Bg4 now, after his Bc6, the queen can easily go out in few moves, as we can't guard the e4 anymore. Now, after 26...Rfe8, 27.Bd6, [B]Re5[/B] (!) it is both defending the pawn in b5 and forcing their attention on the pawn in g5, and in the same time, holds the column so his queen is futile for few more moves. We will win this game strategically, if not tactically. I think I can win this position from here, regardless of their move, we got a nice advantage at the end.

(again for newcomers :razz:, I am very optimistic when I play any game, not only chess, I believe I can win the game with every move I make).

Other moves possible here seem to be either very bad for us, or too much defensive (like Kh8, a6, Rf7, etc).

Moreover, thinking again about that bishop of ours, their best reply to 26...Rfe8 would be 27.h4, to counter our future development of the rock to e5, and in this case we still can play Bg4, but now they can't anymore scary it off with h3, as the pawn is already in h4. So in this way we can make both moves, and create space to develop the other bishop with Bf8 next (depending on their move).

So, are there any better suggestions than 26...Rfe8?
Should we vote? In fact there is only one possible counter-candidate, and that might be 26...Bg4, which, as I said, I consider it weaker. The other moves are either bad or too defensive.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'll allow Rfe8 then. who's going to send it to the thread ?

WMHalsdorf · 2013-04-30, 19:35

[QUOTE=LaurV;338822]So, my vote goes definitively to [B]26...Rfe8[/B]. That queen needs to be hold back as much as possible. They can't do Qc1 or Qf2 because they lose the bishop. If we go Bg4 now, after his Bc6, the queen can easily go out in few moves, as we can't guard the e4 anymore. Now, after 26...Rfe8, 27.Bd6, [B]Re5[/B] (!) it is both defending the pawn in b5 and forcing their attention on the pawn in g5, and in the same time, holds the column so his queen is futile for few more moves. We will win this game strategically, if not tactically. I think I can win this position from here, regardless of their move, we got a nice advantage at the end.

(again for newcomers :razz:, I am very optimistic when I play any game, not only chess, I believe I can win the game with every move I make).

Other moves possible here seem to be either very bad for us, or too much defensive (like Kh8, a6, Rf7, etc).

Moreover, thinking again about that bishop of ours, their best reply to 26...Rfe8 would be 27.h4, to counter our future development of the rock to e5, and in this case we still can play Bg4, but now they can't anymore scary it off with h3, as the pawn is already in h4. So in this way we can make both moves, and create space to develop the other bishop with Bf8 next (depending on their move).

So, are there any better suggestions than 26...Rfe8?
Should we vote? In fact there is only one possible counter-candidate, and that might be 26...Bg4, which, as I said, I consider it weaker. The other moves are either bad or too defensive.[/QUOTE]

The problem I have with this line is 26... Ref8 27. Bc6 Re5 28. Nf3
So far any line that I looked at that lets white knight move to f3 for free is bad. I expect that for most of the moves considered white will respond with Nf3 making it harder to break thru.

LaurV · 2013-05-01, 02:21

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;338872]The problem I have with this line is 26... Ref8 27. Bc6 Re5 28. Nf3
So far any line that I looked at that lets white knight move to f3 for free is bad. I expect that for most of the moves considered white will respond with Nf3 making it harder to break thru.[/QUOTE]
Now at least someone who looks into what I am talking! :smile: Where have you been until now? You should join the team earlier.

Their Nf3 reply would not be the best here. After 28...Bf5 they have no place to move the queen, except c1 or f2. If they take the rook, they lose the queen (and the game). Then either 29Qf2,Re3 and the horse goes back to 30Ng1, they are cornered, the queen still can't get out, after 30...Be5 we control all board and they can do nothing. If not 30.Ng1, for example 30h3,Rd1, bad for them on both sides (if blocked with the knight, we start cleaning on the queen's side). Or either (worse for them) 29Qc1,Re2 30Kg1,Bc2 and he has to give the queen to avoid the mate there. They still can go to the corner Kh1 and use the horse as a cover, but won't live long.

There is also a variant which is not so spectacular, but also not so risky, if we go 28...Re3 directly. This is kinda the same, but I say it is not spectacular because we give him the "sente" (see former discussions), right now we can't beat the horse and the white is not threatened, so he can move whatever he likes. However, they can't do too much in this position either, we threat to bring the bishop in g4, in that case the horse is gone for free, if not moved, because after we exchange bishop for horse, we support with Rd3 and he can't move the bishop (we either mate him or transform the pawn). After Qf2,Bf5, the position is exactly the same as in the paragraph above.

So, I won't be afraid of 28.Nf3. He has better moves here, but I won't be afraid of any of them. In fact, after 27.Bc6, I am quite confident we can win this game, he has no move to reply to our 27...xxx.

I would be more afraid of their 27.xxx move, with xxx different of Bc6, there are some "funny" choices for "xxx" in this case, one of them is indeed directly playing 27.Nf3, where we have no threat on his g5 pawn, and no open line for the bishop to attack the queen. This is also playable, but more difficult to win for us.

So, if no serious objection, I will post the move in about 10 hours (when I come back home, I have to live now).

WMHalsdorf · 2013-05-01, 05:00

[QUOTE=LaurV;338915]Now at least someone who looks into what I am talking! :smile: Where have you been until now? You should join the team earlier.

Their Nf3 reply would not be the best here. After 28...Bf5 they have no place to move the queen, except c1 or f2. If they take the rook, they lose the queen (and the game). Then either 29Qf2,Re3 and the horse goes back to 30Ng1, they are cornered, the queen still can't get out, after 30...Be5 we control all board and they can do nothing. If not 30.Ng1, for example 30h3,Rd1, bad for them on both sides (if blocked with the knight, we start cleaning on the queen's side). Or either (worse for them) 29Qc1,Re2 30Kg1,Bc2 and he has to give the queen to avoid the mate there. They still can go to the corner Kh1 and use the horse as a cover, but won't live long.

There is also a variant which is not so spectacular, but also not so risky, if we go 28...Re3 directly. This is kinda the same, but I say it is not spectacular because we give him the "sente" (see former discussions), right now we can't beat the horse and the white is not threatened, so he can move whatever he likes. However, they can't do too much in this position either, we threat to bring the bishop in g4, in that case the horse is gone for free, if not moved, because after we exchange bishop for horse, we support with Rd3 and he can't move the bishop (we either mate him or transform the pawn). After Qf2,Bf5, the position is exactly the same as in the paragraph above.

So, I won't be afraid of 28.Nf3. He has better moves here, but I won't be afraid of any of them. In fact, after 27.Bc6, I am quite confident we can win this game, he has no move to reply to our 27...xxx.

I would be more afraid of their 27.xxx move, with xxx different of Bc6, there are some "funny" choices for "xxx" in this case, one of them is indeed directly playing 27.Nf3, where we have no threat on his g5 pawn, and no open line for the bishop to attack the queen. This is also playable, but more difficult to win for us.

So, if no serious objection, I will post the move in about 10 hours (when I come back home, I have to live now).[/QUOTE]

I expect a reply of Nf3 not Bc6 but we can only hope. I'll go along with Rfe8

science_man_88 · 2013-05-01, 11:19

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;338925]I expect a reply of Nf3 not Bc6 but we can only hope. I'll go along with Rfe8[/QUOTE]
I understand for a e5 move by use since the knight can capture it after Nf3 if it doesn't move.

Raman · 2013-06-12, 15:23

Black's twenty sixth move

[B][SIZE=4]26... Bg4[/SIZE][/B]

Raman

[ATTACH]9877[/ATTACH]

LaurV · 2013-06-12, 16:05

Lifting this glove: h3.

Raman · 2013-06-12, 16:42

[QUOTE=LaurV;343153]Lifting this glove: h3.[/QUOTE]
[B][SIZE=4]27... Bh5[/SIZE][/B]

Raman
[ATTACH]9878[/ATTACH]

LaurV · 2013-06-13, 15:43

Nf3

We analyzed that version, and it goes nowhere, that is why we picked the glove. (now probably you will move the rook and you are in the same situation as in the game, but with the bishop locked, or do some passive move with the king)

2013-04-30, 08:31	#13
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	So, my vote goes definitively to [B]26...Rfe8[/B]. That queen needs to be hold back as much as possible. They can't do Qc1 or Qf2 because they lose the bishop. If we go Bg4 now, after his Bc6, the queen can easily go out in few moves, as we can't guard the e4 anymore. Now, after 26...Rfe8, 27.Bd6, [B]Re5[/B] (!) it is both defending the pawn in b5 and forcing their attention on the pawn in g5, and in the same time, holds the column so his queen is futile for few more moves. We will win this game strategically, if not tactically. I think I can win this position from here, regardless of their move, we got a nice advantage at the end. (again for newcomers :razz:, I am very optimistic when I play any game, not only chess, I believe I can win the game with every move I make). Other moves possible here seem to be either very bad for us, or too much defensive (like Kh8, a6, Rf7, etc). Moreover, thinking again about that bishop of ours, their best reply to 26...Rfe8 would be 27.h4, to counter our future development of the rock to e5, and in this case we still can play Bg4, but now they can't anymore scary it off with h3, as the pawn is already in h4. So in this way we can make both moves, and create space to develop the other bishop with Bf8 next (depending on their move). So, are there any better suggestions than 26...Rfe8? Should we vote? In fact there is only one possible counter-candidate, and that might be 26...Bg4, which, as I said, I consider it weaker. The other moves are either bad or too defensive. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-04-30 at 08:32

2013-05-01, 02:21	#16
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 2833₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;338872]The problem I have with this line is 26... Ref8 27. Bc6 Re5 28. Nf3 So far any line that I looked at that lets white knight move to f3 for free is bad. I expect that for most of the moves considered white will respond with Nf3 making it harder to break thru.[/QUOTE] Now at least someone who looks into what I am talking! :smile: Where have you been until now? You should join the team earlier. Their Nf3 reply would not be the best here. After 28...Bf5 they have no place to move the queen, except c1 or f2. If they take the rook, they lose the queen (and the game). Then either 29Qf2,Re3 and the horse goes back to 30Ng1, they are cornered, the queen still can't get out, after 30...Be5 we control all board and they can do nothing. If not 30.Ng1, for example 30h3,Rd1, bad for them on both sides (if blocked with the knight, we start cleaning on the queen's side). Or either (worse for them) 29Qc1,Re2 30Kg1,Bc2 and he has to give the queen to avoid the mate there. They still can go to the corner Kh1 and use the horse as a cover, but won't live long. There is also a variant which is not so spectacular, but also not so risky, if we go 28...Re3 directly. This is kinda the same, but I say it is not spectacular because we give him the "sente" (see former discussions), right now we can't beat the horse and the white is not threatened, so he can move whatever he likes. However, they can't do too much in this position either, we threat to bring the bishop in g4, in that case the horse is gone for free, if not moved, because after we exchange bishop for horse, we support with Rd3 and he can't move the bishop (we either mate him or transform the pawn). After Qf2,Bf5, the position is exactly the same as in the paragraph above. So, I won't be afraid of 28.Nf3. He has better moves here, but I won't be afraid of any of them. In fact, after 27.Bc6, I am quite confident we can win this game, he has no move to reply to our 27...xxx. I would be more afraid of their 27.xxx move, with xxx different of Bc6, there are some "funny" choices for "xxx" in this case, one of them is indeed directly playing 27.Nf3, where we have no threat on his g5 pawn, and no open line for the bishop to attack the queen. This is also playable, but more difficult to win for us. So, if no serious objection, I will post the move in about 10 hours (when I come back home, I have to live now). Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-05-01 at 02:41

2013-06-12, 15:23	#19
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	Black's twenty sixth move Black's twenty sixth move [B][SIZE=4]26... Bg4[/SIZE][/B] Raman [ATTACH]9877[/ATTACH] Attached Thumbnails

2013-06-12, 16:42	#21
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;343153]Lifting this glove: h3.[/QUOTE] [B][SIZE=4]27... Bh5[/SIZE][/B] Raman [ATTACH]9878[/ATTACH] Attached Thumbnails

2013-04-27, 11:42	#12
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;338498]I am also thinking to Bg4, as being the best move now.[/QUOTE] the reason I liked this at all is because if you look our pawn and bishop together basically form a wall of can't move squares in front of the king. but I can see how we can mess it up later on.

2013-04-30, 11:48	#14
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;338822]So, my vote goes definitively to [B]26...Rfe8[/B]. That queen needs to be hold back as much as possible. They can't do Qc1 or Qf2 because they lose the bishop. If we go Bg4 now, after his Bc6, the queen can easily go out in few moves, as we can't guard the e4 anymore. Now, after 26...Rfe8, 27.Bd6, [B]Re5[/B] (!) it is both defending the pawn in b5 and forcing their attention on the pawn in g5, and in the same time, holds the column so his queen is futile for few more moves. We will win this game strategically, if not tactically. I think I can win this position from here, regardless of their move, we got a nice advantage at the end. (again for newcomers :razz:, I am very optimistic when I play any game, not only chess, I believe I can win the game with every move I make). Other moves possible here seem to be either very bad for us, or too much defensive (like Kh8, a6, Rf7, etc). Moreover, thinking again about that bishop of ours, their best reply to 26...Rfe8 would be 27.h4, to counter our future development of the rock to e5, and in this case we still can play Bg4, but now they can't anymore scary it off with h3, as the pawn is already in h4. So in this way we can make both moves, and create space to develop the other bishop with Bf8 next (depending on their move). So, are there any better suggestions than 26...Rfe8? Should we vote? In fact there is only one possible counter-candidate, and that might be 26...Bg4, which, as I said, I consider it weaker. The other moves are either bad or too defensive.[/QUOTE] I guess I'll allow Rfe8 then. who's going to send it to the thread ?

2013-04-30, 19:35	#15
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;338822]So, my vote goes definitively to [B]26...Rfe8[/B]. That queen needs to be hold back as much as possible. They can't do Qc1 or Qf2 because they lose the bishop. If we go Bg4 now, after his Bc6, the queen can easily go out in few moves, as we can't guard the e4 anymore. Now, after 26...Rfe8, 27.Bd6, [B]Re5[/B] (!) it is both defending the pawn in b5 and forcing their attention on the pawn in g5, and in the same time, holds the column so his queen is futile for few more moves. We will win this game strategically, if not tactically. I think I can win this position from here, regardless of their move, we got a nice advantage at the end. (again for newcomers :razz:, I am very optimistic when I play any game, not only chess, I believe I can win the game with every move I make). Other moves possible here seem to be either very bad for us, or too much defensive (like Kh8, a6, Rf7, etc). Moreover, thinking again about that bishop of ours, their best reply to 26...Rfe8 would be 27.h4, to counter our future development of the rock to e5, and in this case we still can play Bg4, but now they can't anymore scary it off with h3, as the pawn is already in h4. So in this way we can make both moves, and create space to develop the other bishop with Bf8 next (depending on their move). So, are there any better suggestions than 26...Rfe8? Should we vote? In fact there is only one possible counter-candidate, and that might be 26...Bg4, which, as I said, I consider it weaker. The other moves are either bad or too defensive.[/QUOTE] The problem I have with this line is 26... Ref8 27. Bc6 Re5 28. Nf3 So far any line that I looked at that lets white knight move to f3 for free is bad. I expect that for most of the moves considered white will respond with Nf3 making it harder to break thru.

2013-05-01, 05:00	#17
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 1000000001₂ Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;338915]Now at least someone who looks into what I am talking! :smile: Where have you been until now? You should join the team earlier. Their Nf3 reply would not be the best here. After 28...Bf5 they have no place to move the queen, except c1 or f2. If they take the rook, they lose the queen (and the game). Then either 29Qf2,Re3 and the horse goes back to 30Ng1, they are cornered, the queen still can't get out, after 30...Be5 we control all board and they can do nothing. If not 30.Ng1, for example 30h3,Rd1, bad for them on both sides (if blocked with the knight, we start cleaning on the queen's side). Or either (worse for them) 29Qc1,Re2 30Kg1,Bc2 and he has to give the queen to avoid the mate there. They still can go to the corner Kh1 and use the horse as a cover, but won't live long. There is also a variant which is not so spectacular, but also not so risky, if we go 28...Re3 directly. This is kinda the same, but I say it is not spectacular because we give him the "sente" (see former discussions), right now we can't beat the horse and the white is not threatened, so he can move whatever he likes. However, they can't do too much in this position either, we threat to bring the bishop in g4, in that case the horse is gone for free, if not moved, because after we exchange bishop for horse, we support with Rd3 and he can't move the bishop (we either mate him or transform the pawn). After Qf2,Bf5, the position is exactly the same as in the paragraph above. So, I won't be afraid of 28.Nf3. He has better moves here, but I won't be afraid of any of them. In fact, after 27.Bc6, I am quite confident we can win this game, he has no move to reply to our 27...xxx. I would be more afraid of their 27.xxx move, with xxx different of Bc6, there are some "funny" choices for "xxx" in this case, one of them is indeed directly playing 27.Nf3, where we have no threat on his g5 pawn, and no open line for the bishop to attack the queen. This is also playable, but more difficult to win for us. So, if no serious objection, I will post the move in about 10 hours (when I come back home, I have to live now).[/QUOTE] I expect a reply of Nf3 not Bc6 but we can only hope. I'll go along with Rfe8

2013-05-01, 11:19	#18
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;338925]I expect a reply of Nf3 not Bc6 but we can only hope. I'll go along with Rfe8[/QUOTE] I understand for a e5 move by use since the knight can capture it after Nf3 if it doesn't move.

2013-06-12, 16:05	#20
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	Lifting this glove: h3.

2013-06-13, 15:43	#22
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	Nf3 We analyzed that version, and it goes nowhere, that is why we picked the glove. (now probably you will move the rook and you are in the same situation as in the game, but with the bishop locked, or do some passive move with the king)