Move 25

[Brian-E]

Their move 24...b5 means, I guess, that they have given priority to keeping our queen contained and defending their c pawn over immediately capturing on f4 and threatening with to run with the passed pawn.

Some candidate possibilities which all look reasonable to me at first glance are:

25.b3 intending bxc4 to get space for our queen on the queenside. We could preface this with 25.a4 a6 26.b3.

25.Kf2 or 25.Kg2. Tthe latter, forcing Black's hand by threatening fxe5 may be better now than it was last move because we have stopped the possibility of ...Rd2.

25.Ng1 (intending Nf3). But we must be prepared for the possible reply 25...Rxf4+ leaving them with a passed e pawn instead of an f pawn. The knight is then not well placed for the blockade and they can make progress after 26.Nf3 (or 26.Kg2 or 26.Ke2) Bf5.

[henryzz]

If we are doing b3 then bxc4 then I would expect something like:
25.b3 exf4 26.bxc4 f3 27.Ng1
I am not sure what follows.

25. Ng1 exf4 26. Nf3 doesn't give much progress on taking the pawn of f4. It just blocks it tying up a piece.

As far as I can tell we are going to have to do either Kf2 or Kg2 if we are to aim to take the passed pawn.

On the offensive front Bc6 might be necessary to clear away the queenside pawns.

This is a bit of a brain storm of ideas that came to me. Some will be incorrect or stupid or blindingly obvious.

[Brian-E]

[QUOTE=henryzz;335838]If we are doing b3 then bxc4 then I would expect something like:
25.b3 exf4 26.bxc4 f3 27.Ng1
I am not sure what follows.[/QUOTE]
Better 26.Nd4 here, I think (if 26...Bxd4 27.cxd4 Rxd4 is answered by 28.Bxg6). Black, though, can probably best play ...Bg4 before playing ...exf4, and then Nd4 is answered by ...f3 as discussed last move.

[QUOTE]25. Ng1 exf4 26. Nf3 doesn't give much progress on taking the pawn of f4. It just blocks it tying up a piece.[/QUOTE]I see things very differently from the way you see them. In my view we are not likely to be able to take the pawn on f4 back in the immediate future, and it is absolutely imperative to [I]blockade[/I] it. A knight on the square in front of the pawn, in this case f3, is a good blockader. With that knight protected by the bishop and the king, with the knight and bishop controlling important infiltration squares of the black rooks like d4, d3 and d2, we should hope for a solid set-up which keeps Black on hold and allows us time to activate our queen.

[QUOTE]As far as I can tell we are going to have to do either Kf2 or Kg2 if we are to aim to take the passed pawn.[/QUOTE]Indeed, though in the immediate future it will be helping to blockade the pawn by defending a piece, preferably our knight, on f3.

[QUOTE]On the offensive front Bc6 might be necessary to clear away the queenside pawns.[/QUOTE]Maybe at some point, yes, but I think the bishop's present position on e4 is strongest right now because we have the possible Bxg6 in the air.

At the moment the move I most favour is 25.Kg2 because Black must immediately do something about our threat of fxe5. I see 25.Kg2 exf4 26.Nd4 Bg4 27.Nf3 as a possible continuation, and I like this for us: our blockade is solid here.

[Zeta-Flux]

I think Bc6 loses to the response Bf5. We've now lost a move or we must put our queen on a bad square.

25. b3 exf4 26. Ng1 f3 27. Kf2 Rf4 and we don't seem to be doing good. Re8 is a killer.

25. Kg2 exf4 26. Kf3 Bf5 27. Nxf4 Bxe4 28. Qxe4 Rde8 29. Qd5+ Kh8 30. Kg4 Re5 31. Qc6 Rfd8

and I can't tell who is winning.

[Brian-E]

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;335923]25. Kg2 exf4 26. Kf3 Bf5 27. Nxf4 Bxe4 28. Qxe4 Rde8 29. Qd5+ Kh8 30. Kg4 Re5 31. Qc6 Rfd8

and I can't tell who is winning.[/QUOTE]
This looks like a very good line. I've tried for a while but can't improve on Black's play in your sequence, and if it indeed works then I most certainly take back what I said in response to David about blockading the pawn on f4 instead of going forward and capturing it at once.

At the end of your line, 32.Ne6 looks to me to be much better for us. As far as I can see Black must then play the miserable 32...Rg8 (not 32...Rb8 33.Qc7 Rg8 34.Nxg7).

But it's complicated. I'm a weak tactician, and I'm not at all certain Black will be forced into this despite being unable so far to find anything better for them. Can anyone improve on Black's play in Pace's line?

[Brian-E]

If Black defends the pawn with 25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 27.Bxg6 hxg6 28.Qxg6+ and then attempts to avoid the perpetual check with 28...Bg7 I think we are doing alright after 29.Nd4 Rde8 30.h4 Re3+ 31.Kf2 Bg4 32.h5 Bxh5 33.Qxh5.

EDIT: if they allow our pawn to h6 with 32...Kh8 33.h6 Be5 I think 34.Nc6 Rg8 35.Qf7 is good for us.

[henryzz]

[QUOTE=Brian-E;335947]This looks like a very good line. I've tried for a while but can't improve on Black's play in your sequence, and if it indeed works then I most certainly take back what I said in response to David about blockading the pawn on f4 instead of going forward and capturing it at once.

At the end of your line, 32.Ne6 looks to me to be much better for us. As far as I can see Black must then play the miserable 32...Rg8 (not 32...Rb8 33.Qc7 Rg8 34.Nxg7).

But it's complicated. I'm a weak tactician, and I'm not at all certain Black will be forced into this despite being unable so far to find anything better for them. Can anyone improve on Black's play in Pace's line?[/QUOTE]
25. Kg2 exf4 26. Kf3 Bf5 27. Nxf4 wouldn't be followed by Bxe4.
Instead he will do Be5. I think black can win at least a bishop or a knight from that position. I don't think Nxf4 is an option there.

I would expect 25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 like you say in your next post.

[henryzz]

[QUOTE=Brian-E;335951]If Black defends the pawn with 25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 27.Bxg6 hxg6 28.Qxg6+ and then attempts to avoid the perpetual check with 28...Bg7 I think we are doing alright after 29.Nd4 Rde8 30.h4 Re3+ 31.Kf2 Bg4 32.h5 Bxh5 33.Qxh5.

EDIT: if they allow our pawn to h6 with 32...Kh8 33.h6 Be5 I think 34.Nc6 Rg8 35.Qf7 is good for us.[/QUOTE]
34. Nc6 Re2+ 35. K(fg)1 f3
I reckon they either get a promotion or checkmate before we can get a useful promotion.

I think there are too many places black can deviate from that line.

[Brian-E]

[QUOTE=henryzz;335956]25. Kg2 exf4 26. Kf3 Bf5 27. Nxf4 wouldn't be followed by Bxe4.
Instead he will do Be5. I think black can win at least a bishop or a knight from that position. I don't think Nxf4 is an option there.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's a killer. We can't play Nxf4 in that position. Unless we can do better, I'm back to advocating a blockade with our knight on f3 (protected by king and bishop).

But I don't yet see what you mean with your next comment if we [I]do[/I] play our king to f3:

[QUOTE=henryzz;335958]34. Nc6 Re2+ 35. K(fg)1 f3
I reckon they either get a promotion or checkmate before we can get a useful promotion.

I think there are too many places black can deviate from that line.[/QUOTE]
Whether Black plays 34...Re2+ or not, they still have to deal with our mating threat of Nxe5. And on (25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 27.Bxg6 hxg6 28.Qxg6+ Bg7 29.Nd4 Rde8 30.h4 Re3+ 31.Kf2 Bg4 32.h5 Kh8 33.h6 Be5 34.Nc6) Re2+ 35.Kf1 Rg8 we play 36.Qf7 as before. Our threat of g6 forces 36...Rxg5 when we can take a draw if we want it with 37.Nxe5 Rexe5 38.Qf8+ Kh7 (...Rg8 39.Qf6+) 39.Qf7+ etc.

[henryzz]

[QUOTE=Brian-E;335959]Yes, that's a killer. We can't play Nxf4 in that position. Unless we can do better, I'm back to advocating a blockade with our knight on f3 (protected by king and bishop).

But I don't yet see what you mean with your next comment if we [I]do[/I] play our king to f3:


Whether Black plays 34...Re2+ or not, they still have to deal with our mating threat of Nxe5. And on (25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 27.Bxg6 hxg6 28.Qxg6+ Bg7 29.Nd4 Rde8 30.h4 Re3+ 31.Kf2 Bg4 32.h5 Kh8 33.h6 Be5 34.Nc6) Re2+ 35.Kf1 Rg8 we play 36.Qf7 as before. Our threat of g6 forces 36...Rxg5 when we can take a draw if we want it with 37.Nxe5 Rexe5 38.Qf8+ Kh7 (...Rg8 39.Qf6+) 39.Qf7+ etc.[/QUOTE]
25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 27.Bxg6 hxg6 28.Qxg6+ Bg7 29.Nd4 Rde8 30.h4 Re3+ 31.Kf2 Bg4 32.h5 Kh8 33.h6 Be5 34.Nc6 Re2+ 35.Kf1 Rg8 36.Qf7 f3 37. g6 Bh3+ 38. Kg1 Rxg5+ 39. Kh1 Re1#
Am I severely misunderstanding where you want the g6.
Rather than 35.... Rg8 I would recommend f3 for them there. I think that leads to a similar position. I have to go to catch a bus now.

[Brian-E]

[QUOTE=henryzz;335960]25.Kg2 exf4 26.Kf3 Be5 27.Bxg6 hxg6 28.Qxg6+ Bg7 29.Nd4 Rde8 30.h4 Re3+ 31.Kf2 Bg4 32.h5 Kh8 33.h6 Be5 34.Nc6 Re2+ 35.Kf1 Rg8 36.Qf7 f3 37. g6 Bh3+ 38. Kg1 Rxg5+ 39. Kh1 Re1#
Am I severely misunderstanding where you want the g6.
Rather than 35.... Rg8 I would recommend f3 for them there. I think that leads to a similar position. I have to go to catch a bus now.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, yes I agree with you. I missed the move ...f3.
35...f3 36.Nxe5 Bh3+ 37.Kg1 f2+ 38.Kh2 f1=Q+ wins.
In your line following 35...Rg8, 38...Rxg5+ is impossible, but we're losing anyway after 35...Rg8 36.Qf7 f3 37.g6 (yes this is what I intended) Bh3+ 38.Kg1 Rg2+ 39.Kh1 R8xg6 40.Qf8+ Kh7 41.Nxe5 f2 42.Qf7+ Kh6 43.Qf4+ R2g5 44.Qf8+ Kh5 45.Qf3+ Bg4.

I currently advocate 25.Kg2 intending a blockade after 25...exf4 26.Nd4 Bg4 27.Nf3.