Move 20

Brian-E · 2013-02-19, 22:08

Zeta-Flux has just correctly anticipated their move in the last day or two.

Here's what has been said about it so far in the previous thread:
[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;329898]Did we ever decide on a plan after ... Nd5?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Brian-E;329991][...after clearing up my misunderstanding...]
No, I don't think that's been discussed.
At first glance I think we're probably okay after 19...Nd5 20.Bd2 exf4 21.h4. If Black attempts to protect f4 with 21...Be5, I think we can play 22.Bxg6![/QUOTE]

Zeta-Flux · 2013-02-19, 22:50

I think our only options are Bd2, Bc1, or Bf2. The Bf2 move puts the bishop in the way of the rook on f1, but it also puts it in a good spot to protect h4, and doesn't get in the way on the d-column. We should probably play out a few variations to see how things progress.

Brian-E · 2013-02-20, 10:50

The move 20.Bf2 protects g3 which is perhaps more important than h4. For example in the line 20.Bd2 exf4 21.h4 Qc7 we cannot play 22.Bxg6? hxg6 23.Qxg6 because of the devasting 23...f3. If the bishop was on f2 in this line we could reply with 24.Bg3. We [I]can[/I] play (20.Bd2 exf4 21.h4 Qc7) 22.Rf3 since we haven't blocked our rook on f1, the disadvantage of 20.Bf2 as you point out, but then after 22...Rae8 23.Bxg6 Rxe2 24.Bxh7+ Kh8 intending ...Ne3 I think we are in trouble.

So 20.Bf2 looks possibly best to me at the moment, keeping an eye on the squares e3 and g3, allowing us to play Rbd1 with effect as you also point out, and putting off till later trying to win back the pawn on f4 after they've played ...exf4.

As an alternative to moving our e3 bishop, perhaps 20.Qd2 or 20.Qc1 are also worth considering. But I don't advocate them at the moment.

henryzz · 2013-02-20, 12:30

Rbd1 is an option IMO.

Brian-E · 2013-02-20, 17:09

[QUOTE=henryzz;330186]Rbd1 is an option IMO.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't 20.Rbd1 lose material to 20...Nxe3? It's the type of confusing, everything-en-prise type position where I often slip up, but I can't make it work. Have I missed something?

Zeta-Flux · 2013-02-20, 19:11

That's what I thought initially too, but there seem to be two main lines that work out okay:
20. Rbd1 Nxe3
21. Rxd8 Nxc2
22. Rxf8 Rxf8
23. Bxb7 and we have even material for the moment.

The other line is:
20. Rbd1 Nxe3
21. Rxd8 Raxd8
22. Qc1 Nxf1 (or alternatively, Bxe4, 23. Qxe3 Bd3)
23. Bxb7
and now we have traded two rooks for their queen, and our bad bishop for their good bishop. Their next move should probably be Nd2, to save the knight (which seems stuck, but is also strangely powerfully placed).

richs · 2013-02-21, 01:38

Here's a variation on Zeta-Flux's second line:

20. Rbd1 Nxe3
21. Rxd8 Raxd8
22. Qb1 Nxf1
23. Bxb7 Nd2

which then requires us to move our Queen again. Not attractive.

But following Z-F's second line:

20. Rbd1 Nxe3
21. Rxd8 Raxd8
22. Qc1 Nxf1
23. Bxb7 Nd2
24. Nd4 exd4
25. Qxd2

and we trade knights. I like this position better.

Zeta-Flux · 2013-02-21, 02:07

I'm not a fan of that last line.

25. ... dxc3 which will be followed by cxb2. Now our queen is on pawn duty.

Zeta-Flux · 2013-02-21, 02:24

What about:

20. Bf2 exf4
21. h4

:-)

Zeta-Flux · 2013-02-21, 03:42

By the way, I don't think Qc1 works:

20. Qc1 exf4 (now threatening the bishop and the g-pawn)
21. Bxf4 Nxf4 (again threatening the g-pawn, and the fork!)
22. Nxf4 Qxg5+ and now we lose a piece. (Not Bg2. Then Rxf4, and they are threatening mate.)

--------

I didn't think Qd2 works either, but the following line works out okay (and actually has some fun play in some lines):

20. Qd2 Nxe3
21. Qxe3 exf4
22. Nxf4 Qxg5+
23. Kh1

Brian-E · 2013-02-21, 21:43

David's move 20.Rbd1 does indeed work. Thanks for the pointers. I seem to require an awful lot of patience from you guys at the moment, but you do succeed in explaining things to me eventually.:smile:

Considering that we seem to get a perfectly decent position after 20...Nxe3, I now think 20.Rbd1 is our best move.

2013-02-19, 22:08	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	Move 20 Zeta-Flux has just correctly anticipated their move in the last day or two. Here's what has been said about it so far in the previous thread: [QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;329898]Did we ever decide on a plan after ... Nd5?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Brian-E;329991][...after clearing up my misunderstanding...] No, I don't think that's been discussed. At first glance I think we're probably okay after 19...Nd5 20.Bd2 exf4 21.h4. If Black attempts to protect f4 with 21...Be5, I think we can play 22.Bxg6![/QUOTE]

2013-02-21, 02:24	#9
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7·13·17 Posts	What about: 20. Bf2 exf4 21. h4 :-) Last fiddled with by Zeta-Flux on 2013-02-21 at 02:25

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2013-02-19, 22:50	#2
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7×13×17 Posts	I think our only options are Bd2, Bc1, or Bf2. The Bf2 move puts the bishop in the way of the rook on f1, but it also puts it in a good spot to protect h4, and doesn't get in the way on the d-column. We should probably play out a few variations to see how things progress.

2013-02-20, 10:50	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	The move 20.Bf2 protects g3 which is perhaps more important than h4. For example in the line 20.Bd2 exf4 21.h4 Qc7 we cannot play 22.Bxg6? hxg6 23.Qxg6 because of the devasting 23...f3. If the bishop was on f2 in this line we could reply with 24.Bg3. We [I]can[/I] play (20.Bd2 exf4 21.h4 Qc7) 22.Rf3 since we haven't blocked our rook on f1, the disadvantage of 20.Bf2 as you point out, but then after 22...Rae8 23.Bxg6 Rxe2 24.Bxh7+ Kh8 intending ...Ne3 I think we are in trouble. So 20.Bf2 looks possibly best to me at the moment, keeping an eye on the squares e3 and g3, allowing us to play Rbd1 with effect as you also point out, and putting off till later trying to win back the pawn on f4 after they've played ...exf4. As an alternative to moving our e3 bishop, perhaps 20.Qd2 or 20.Qc1 are also worth considering. But I don't advocate them at the moment.

2013-02-20, 12:30	#4
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 13775₈ Posts	Rbd1 is an option IMO.

2013-02-20, 17:09	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;330186]Rbd1 is an option IMO.[/QUOTE] Doesn't 20.Rbd1 lose material to 20...Nxe3? It's the type of confusing, everything-en-prise type position where I often slip up, but I can't make it work. Have I missed something?

2013-02-20, 19:11	#6
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7×13×17 Posts	That's what I thought initially too, but there seem to be two main lines that work out okay: 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Nxc2 22. Rxf8 Rxf8 23. Bxb7 and we have even material for the moment. The other line is: 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Raxd8 22. Qc1 Nxf1 (or alternatively, Bxe4, 23. Qxe3 Bd3) 23. Bxb7 and now we have traded two rooks for their queen, and our bad bishop for their good bishop. Their next move should probably be Nd2, to save the knight (which seems stuck, but is also strangely powerfully placed).

2013-02-21, 01:38	#7
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	Here's a variation on Zeta-Flux's second line: 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Raxd8 22. Qb1 Nxf1 23. Bxb7 Nd2 which then requires us to move our Queen again. Not attractive. But following Z-F's second line: 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Raxd8 22. Qc1 Nxf1 23. Bxb7 Nd2 24. Nd4 exd4 25. Qxd2 and we trade knights. I like this position better.

2013-02-21, 02:07	#8
Zeta-Flux May 2003 3013₈ Posts	I'm not a fan of that last line. 25. ... dxc3 which will be followed by cxb2. Now our queen is on pawn duty.

2013-02-21, 03:42	#10
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7·13·17 Posts	By the way, I don't think Qc1 works: 20. Qc1 exf4 (now threatening the bishop and the g-pawn) 21. Bxf4 Nxf4 (again threatening the g-pawn, and the fork!) 22. Nxf4 Qxg5+ and now we lose a piece. (Not Bg2. Then Rxf4, and they are threatening mate.) -------- I didn't think Qd2 works either, but the following line works out okay (and actually has some fun play in some lines): 20. Qd2 Nxe3 21. Qxe3 exf4 22. Nxf4 Qxg5+ 23. Kh1

2013-02-21, 21:43	#11
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	David's move 20.Rbd1 does indeed work. Thanks for the pointers. I seem to require an awful lot of patience from you guys at the moment, but you do succeed in explaining things to me eventually.:smile: Considering that we seem to get a perfectly decent position after 20...Nxe3, I now think 20.Rbd1 is our best move.