Black's nineteenth move

[Raman]

[QUOTE=LaurV;329438]
In fact, I think we better open a new thread with a poll, for black's move 19. [/QUOTE]
[COLOR=White]back again [/COLOR]

My own first preference will be for the 19...Bxe4 move
My own second preference will be for the 19...Nd5 move
[COLOR=White] My own third preference will be for the 19...[/COLOR][COLOR=White]Nf5 move[/COLOR]

back again;

I'm not being sure enough, we would rather risk our own game afterwards, towards for the following moves, over thereby, by itself

19...Nd5 20. Rbd1 [COLOR=White]/ Rfd1[/COLOR] Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Raxd8 [COLOR=White]/ Rfxd8 / Nxc2 / Nxf1 / 21...Bxe4 / 21...exf4[/COLOR]
22. Qc1 [COLOR=White]/ Qb1[/COLOR] Nxf1 23. Kxf1 [COLOR=White]/ Qxf1 / Bxb7[/COLOR] Nd2 [COLOR=White]/ Bxe4[/COLOR] moves

[Dubslow]

What if they respond to Nd5 by moving the bishop on e3?

[Raman]

I think they 19... Nd5
20. Bd2 / 20. Bc1 / 20. Bf2 / 20. Rf3 / 20. Bxd5+ / 20. Rfd1 moves
are being safe enough for us moves,

but being a little afraid of the 20. Rbd1 move,

by some same way,

do you think
19...Nd5 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8

21...Nxc2 move is being safe enough for us moves than when compared to 21...Raxd8 / 21....Nxf1 / 21...Rfxd8 / 21...Bxe4[COLOR=White] / 21...exf4 [/COLOR]or some other moves
into to be

[LaurV]

[QUOTE=Dubslow;329462]What if they respond to Nd5 by moving the bishop on e3?[/QUOTE]
Move it where? d4, c5, are bad they give it for a pawn or for free, we still have the fork with the horse. On f2 is worse, as they lose pawn in c4 and all goes down with that pawn (again, I am very optimistic when I play a game, hehe, especially one like this where nothing is at stake except our pride), they can't defend g5, etc. Put the bishop in c1, then the rook is locked, out of the game for few moves. Of course, they could Bxd5, but this is not happy either, we put the queen there and their only defense against mate is Ng3. From there, we have to study more, but I think they are doomed. So, the only reasonable choice, if they want to move the bishop, is Bd2. In fact, these seems to be their best 3 responses (in no particular order):

Bd2
Qd2
Rf3

I believe any of them will result in a draw, if we don't screw it till the end.

I will still go for Nd5 because I assume their response will be Rd1. Exchanging the queens is very tempting, they get a big advantage from it, and they will not expect that we sacrifice the queen. It is a "feeling" move, if you like...

[LaurV]

[QUOTE=Raman;329464]but being a little afraid of the 20. Rbd1 move,
19...Nd5 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8
[COLOR=Red][B]21...Nxc2[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
No, Nxc2 is bad (the one I marked red). They get advantage from exchanging the queens, as their king is open, a board without queens is much better for them, they still can take the bishop in b7 or/and we can't really take the horse out of c2. We should "pray to our gods" they move 20.Rbd1 and 21.Rxd8, you have no reason to be scared of it. In this case our best reply is 21...Raxd8 and we play with 3 or 4 pieces against their queen, that would be "almost-sure-win" for us. In fact I am counting on it, that is why I prefer 19...Nd5.

[science_man_88]

[QUOTE=Dubslow;329462]What if they respond to Nd5 by moving the bishop on e3?[/QUOTE]

well I hope they would move Bxd5 leaving us open for a possible check/checkmate. of course that's unlikely.

if they move it any place but backwards for the bishop on e3 it's not great for them to some extent, move to d4 gets taken, move to c5 gets taken, move to b6 get a taken with a long range queen check possible.

[LaurV]

[QUOTE=science_man_88;329468]well I hope they would move Bxd5 leaving us open for a possible check/checkmate. of course that's unlikely.

if they move it any place but backwards for the bishop on e3 it's not great for them to some extent, move to d4 gets taken, move to c5 gets taken, move to b6 get a taken with a long range queen check possible.[/QUOTE]
ROFL, I did not think to Bxb6 at all, that move is so bad that I even did not consider it. If he plays it, he may be checkmate very soon. (20.Bxb6 Qxb6 21.Rf2 Ne3 22.Qd2 Bxe4 23.Re1 Ng4, etc.)

[Raman]

[QUOTE=Raman;329460]
19...Nd5 20. Rbd1 [COLOR=White]/ Rfd1[/COLOR] Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Raxd8 [COLOR=White]/ Rfxd8 / Nxc2 / Nxf1 / 21...Bxe4 / 21...exf4[/COLOR]
22. Qc1 [COLOR=White]/ Qb1[/COLOR] Nxf1 23. [COLOR=White]Kxf1[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]/ Qxf1 / [B][COLOR=Black]Bxb7[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR] Nd2 [COLOR=White]/ Bxe4[/COLOR] moves[/QUOTE]

The line goes as follows
19...Nd5 20. Rbd1 Nxe3 21. Rxd8 Raxd8 22. Qc1 Nxf1 23. [COLOR=White][B][COLOR=Black]Bxb7[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR] Nd2 moves
In case, if you may not mind, [COLOR=White]and[/COLOR] then [COLOR=White]or[/COLOR] you may edit with the first post, highlighting, this following move, for the line[COLOR=White], into to be, being, at its own respective place[/COLOR]

[LaurV]

I see...
You like "white on white" writing style a lot, but honestly, that is a bit difficult to follow, when playing chess :razz:
I think your last (visible) line is ok, I don't see anything "scary" for us in it. We end up with 2 rooks or with 3 pieces against the queen. This is "almost sure win". But again, only if they get greedy and do Rd1. They can do better that this, as discussed before.

OTOH, playing the bishop 19...Bxe4 (instead of 19...Nd5), we start exchanging the wood, this seems to me as a sure path to a draw.

[Raman]

Okay, this is being my own opinion

The 19...Nd5 move may look sweet enough for now, but a couple of moves afterwards, we will lose with queen, bishop for two rooks, bishop.

Do you really think that we would be able to handle with the loss of queen, later on, towards the later stage of this game? Mainly, into long run? We would even lose with our own light bishop lighting towards their king's corner.

I will leave it at your own risk, if in case you would prefer 19...Nd5 move. You should not regret for the loss of pieces, later on their queen / light bishop / pawns dominating game onto towards our own side.

My own first preference would be for the 19...Bxe4 move; Being [COLOR="white"]very much more further being[/COLOR]
safer enough [COLOR="white"]preference,[/COLOR]
there will be no risk of material imbalance with this move - [STRIKE]nor would we lose pieces without being moved[/STRIKE], we might still have some advantage, as yet, towards this own 19...Bxe4 move!

[Raman]

It seems that all the other members of the team
have voted with for the 19...Nd5 move,

but that move looks interesting, with plenty of
available options for trap to our own opponent.

If other people are being interested with it, then
please go ahead with it, you may wish to do so at your own
risk,

but that I am being a little concerned for with the 20. Rbd1
move, if not necessarily being for the 20. Rfd1 move, although.

If you all wish, then you may try out playing with it, and
then find out with what our own opponent will reply with it,
towards us, rather.

There are being possibilities for them in order to play with
other moves, but that be aware in order to tackle with the
either 20. Rbd1 / 20. Rfd1 move cases, as well[COLOR=White], repeatedly,
back again, but that which way, and then, just simply, [/COLOR]